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you

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planet de GRA radio.com what's up saucer

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heads this is Ryan Sprague from the

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summer in the skies podcast and I have

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an exclusive offer for you to come join

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importantly it brings us all together as

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like-minded people to talk about these

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topics i'll be giving lectures and

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taking part in numerous panel

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discussions with some of the most

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popular UFO and unexplained podcasts out

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there today and don't forget to check

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McClellan it's going to be a jam-packed

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common and I'll see you there there is a

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huge possibility that they don't know

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what the heck this is there is no

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communication not necessarily that

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aliens are out there it's there's this

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phenomena that they cannot explain the

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men and women that are flying the most

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powerful weapons in the most advanced

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technology around the globe they are

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seeing things that they cannot identify

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they report it and the upper echelon

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can't identify it that in itself is a

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huge threat to national security

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this is somewhere in the skies the

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Branzburg

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[Music]

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welcome to summer in the skies I'm your

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host Ryan spring and today we welcome

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John Greenwald back to the show in 1996

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Greenwald began researching the secret

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inner workings of the US government at

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the age of 15 he targeted such agencies

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as the CIA FBI Pentagon Air Force Army

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Navy NSA CIA and countless others he

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utilized the Freedom of Information Act

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to gain access to more than 2 million

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pages of documents he took those pages

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and over the course of more than two

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decades has built an archive known

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around the world as the black vault his

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book inside the black vault the

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government's UFO Secrets Revealed takes

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you on a journey within the secret world

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of unidentified aerial phenomena that

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has plagued the military since at least

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the 1940s Declassified records prove

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that the UFO topic is one of the most

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highly classified and most elusive

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subjects the US government has ever

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dealt with today we look at some of the

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most poignant documents he's come across

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his thoughts on to the Stars Academy and

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the developing story of the u.s. navy's

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brand-new protocol on reporting ufos

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so today we have back on one of my

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favorite guests and his new book just

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came out it is called inside the black

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vault the government's UFO Secrets

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Revealed the author is John Greenwald

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and we're going to be talking all about

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the book today and some recent news

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about the Navy and UFOs but before we do

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that John thank you so much for coming

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on - somewhere in the skies again hey

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Ryan it's my pleasure man it's good good

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to be here again I was so honored to get

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my signed copy of your book I I was so

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giddy I ran to Times Square in New York

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and had to get that photo man that was

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that was very very cool by the way and

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that that remains on the top of my list

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is one of my favorites that was very

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cool oh it's so funny because I mean

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Times Square is the last place any New

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Yorker wants to be you know just like

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that tourist attraction anywhere else in

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any other cities so I try to not go

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there like it's the plague but I knew

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that how iconic it was so I'm like I got

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to do this I got it yeah that was very

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cool my only experience in Times Square

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really quickly is as I went I was doing

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a shoot in New York I had never been to

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New York before and I got to walk the

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streets at night it was very very cool

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so I'm in Times Square right now you

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have to go there if you're a and I'm

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from LA right so it's just a preface

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this I'm used to crowds and so I'm

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walking around with like wow this is

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just this is really crowded and so

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somebody's pushing me from behind right

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and pushing like three four five times

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so finally I'm like look I don't want

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any problems here I turn around the kid

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you not this lady was probably in her

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seventies you know and she's just like

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I'm not walking fast enough for and

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she's just pushing and I can't there's

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somebody in front of me man I'll never

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forget that experience that was my New

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York moment like oh my god this was cool

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to visit I can't come back you know I

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had my brief time in LA to but you know

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I've been in in New York City for almost

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ten years and that never gets easier

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there will always be a 70 year old woman

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behind you who's got to go somewhere and

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get there before you do so yeah so well

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will we could talk bad about Times

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Square all day but I really want to talk

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about your book

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so how does it feel to finally have it

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out I appreciate that it feels awesome

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it really does it's obviously as you

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know of being an author yourself it's a

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labor of love it's a lot of work it's a

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lot more demanding than you might think

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it's not like you just whip it up and in

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and throw something and cobble something

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together so it feels good to finally

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like hold in my hands and what's what's

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very neat is that the the publishing

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company rowman & littlefield has been

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very very supportive they are a huge

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outfit they publish books all around the

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world they've got hundreds and hundreds

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and hundreds of titles under their their

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banner but ufo's really just kind of

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isn't their forte and I wasn't sure like

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hey is this something that they're just

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gonna publish and you know not

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necessarily support and I'm gonna sell

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95% of the copies and you know the

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that's fine for them because though

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they'll make a couple bucks on the back

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end I didn't mean to be such a pessimist

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but I wasn't sure on the contrary they

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have been amazing when it comes to the

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support and the belief in the book and

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for a house that big to believe in this

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is a good feeling so it was awesome to

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hold the book but I was not expecting

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such an amazing reaction from the

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publishing company and in turn the

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public itself and that resulted in the

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book coming out a week earlier which was

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which was a great surprise to me so I

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frantically had to start signing quite a

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few hundred copies of the initial load

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on my end that went out and I thought I

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had like seven more days they said nope

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so I didn't want anybody to be upset

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that I wasn't doing that so I you know

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just started working night and day to

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try and get everything packaged up but

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long winded way of saying it's it's

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overwhelming but it's it's very very

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cool to see and walk into a bookstore

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and you know see your book on the shelf

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that that was a amazing experience when

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I did that so I guess we should sort of

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start John with them can you tell us a

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little about what the book is about and

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what you kind of set out to do with it

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sure the

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the book is really a culmination of as

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you and I chat and as the book is

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published about 22 years of my life I

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started when I was 15 years old and and

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started using what's called the Freedom

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of Information Act and started hammering

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the government for answers I started

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with UFOs branched off into pretty much

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any government secret you could never

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imagine

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but UFOs was the number one and the book

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is really a culmination of that 22 year

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journey because it really wasn't like

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over and done within six months some of

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these documents took literally years and

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years to get other documents that I

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write about have been around in the UFO

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community for quite some time I don't

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claim to have found everything but what

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I did was and what I did with the book

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is try to bring all of those pieces of

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the puzzle together and ultimately tell

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not only my journey to get them because

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I'm not trying to make it about me but

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my whole point with that intent is to

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show people that this is the most easily

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provable cover-up that exists in my

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opinion there is more evidence to the

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cover-up that exists not only in

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document documentation form but also the

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the tactics that the government and the

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military really kind of launched my way

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to stop me from getting these documents

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in some cases blatant cover-up attempts

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of making documents just disappear

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literally just disappear and so what I

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tried to do is bring all of those pieces

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of the puzzle together and ultimately

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make the case that you can try to

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explain away the UFO phenomena and the

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plural use of that is intended explain

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that away with all of these explanations

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but towards the end of the book I start

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tackling those explanations and when you

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look at the government documents and you

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truly digest it with common sense and

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logic

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all of a sudden none of those

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explanations make sense you start

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leaning towards the fact that this is a

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more advanced civilization probably not

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from here and that's really the only one

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that actually makes sense now of course

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can you prove that well of course not

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because if you could we'd have a

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totally different planet we'd be on but

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I would I would I would be very safe to

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say that the evidence there is so

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overwhelming to support that notion that

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you really I think you're in denial if

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you don't if you don't think that that's

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a possibility I won't say this is gonna

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make you a believer because if any

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author says that then turn around and

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don't you know don't read the yeah kind

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of run away because nobody's got that

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proof at least not yet but what I tried

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to do was bring verifiable evidence to

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make that notion of a reality at least

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the the idea of it a reality absolutely

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and you know what you do best is getting

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these documents and even in the first

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chapter you cover everyone's favorite

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unsolvable case that is Roswell I

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recently had my brush with that I still

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have no more answers than I that I did

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you know coming out and leaving but can

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you tell us a little about when you

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first receive documents on Roswell and

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what you found yeah I think that anybody

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who approaches the topic even those that

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don't you walk up to anybody on the

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street go to Times Square you you know

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ask him hey do you know what Roswell is

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all about they'll say yes and so it's a

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very common very pop culture like

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00:11:55,569 --> 00:11:54,110
reference to the UFO field now the

273
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,579
reason why I brought it up in the book

274
00:12:00,100 --> 00:11:57,920
was it's what it's part of what I call

275
00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:00,110
the company line and I keep revisiting

276
00:12:05,230 --> 00:12:02,390
that company line in the book throughout

277
00:12:07,510 --> 00:12:05,240
because what I define as the company

278
00:12:10,060 --> 00:12:07,520
line is is the military and the

279
00:12:13,210 --> 00:12:10,070
government's explanation for what the

280
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:13,220
UFO phenomena is and that is the fact

281
00:12:17,949 --> 00:12:14,510
that it is not a threat to national

282
00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:17,959
security it is not alien air aircraft or

283
00:12:21,790 --> 00:12:20,270
spacecraft I should say and there's

284
00:12:24,190 --> 00:12:21,800
there's nothing extraterrestrial about

285
00:12:26,170 --> 00:12:24,200
it so there we did our due diligence and

286
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:26,180
that's it so that company line

287
00:12:31,810 --> 00:12:29,600
encompasses an overall denial that the

288
00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:31,820
UFO phenomena is real and that it's

289
00:12:35,319 --> 00:12:33,649
there and it's worthy of investigation

290
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:35,329
but the other part of that company line

291
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:37,610
is denouncing the Roswell incident and

292
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:39,290
saying that it was nothing more than a

293
00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:42,890
project mogul balloon and and you know

294
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,500
they try to explain away the debris as

295
00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:47,360
part of that but in addition

296
00:12:51,970 --> 00:12:49,070
and all of those witnesses that have

297
00:12:53,290 --> 00:12:51,980
come forward witnessing alien bodies and

298
00:12:55,930 --> 00:12:53,300
this and that day they specifically

299
00:12:59,050 --> 00:12:55,940
address that too and they try and

300
00:13:00,730 --> 00:12:59,060
explain that away so what I do is I set

301
00:13:02,980 --> 00:13:00,740
up that the company line in the

302
00:13:04,810 --> 00:13:02,990
beginning of the book that if if you

303
00:13:06,850 --> 00:13:04,820
listen to the government and you listen

304
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:06,860
to the military this is what they want

305
00:13:11,699 --> 00:13:09,529
you to believe and Roswell was a natural

306
00:13:15,699 --> 00:13:11,709
place to start because the government

307
00:13:18,579 --> 00:13:15,709
commonly refers to it and again really

308
00:13:21,639 --> 00:13:18,589
dismisses the entire project but that's

309
00:13:23,949 --> 00:13:21,649
the surface story once you dig in you

310
00:13:26,170 --> 00:13:23,959
realize that they changed their story on

311
00:13:28,329 --> 00:13:26,180
Roswell not once not twice not three

312
00:13:30,579 --> 00:13:28,339
times but ultimately they've had four

313
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:30,589
versions of the Roswell incident

314
00:13:36,819 --> 00:13:33,620
explanation so what I did was I took the

315
00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:36,829
most recent version which was which was

316
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:41,990
published in about 1996 with the Roswell

317
00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:44,930
report case closed and so on and took

318
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:48,920
every bullet point that they had to try

319
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:50,570
to explain Roswell and completely

320
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:52,490
destroy it and the only thing that I use

321
00:13:56,769 --> 00:13:54,170
is their own documents and proven

322
00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:56,779
history that's it I I mean there's no

323
00:13:59,889 --> 00:13:58,490
whistleblower testimony there's no hey

324
00:14:02,680 --> 00:13:59,899
this guy claimed to be a Roswell Army

325
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:02,690
Airfield those those stories are great

326
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:04,730
but I don't use any of that I just use

327
00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:06,890
their own documents and show why their

328
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:09,500
explanation just can't be true does that

329
00:14:12,009 --> 00:14:10,310
prove it's alien

330
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:12,019
no does it prove that there's a cover-up

331
00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:15,970
absolutely so from 1947 - here we are in

332
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:20,390
2019 if we cannot explain with the

333
00:14:24,430 --> 00:14:22,010
government's explanation of what really

334
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:24,440
happened in Roswell then how are we

335
00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:25,670
supposed to believe that they have all

336
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,260
the answers on UFO is that part doesn't

337
00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:29,360
make sense to me but that's what they

338
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:30,980
want you to believe with the company

339
00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:32,810
line so that's what I did in Chapter one

340
00:14:35,710 --> 00:14:34,310
is just say hey look this is what they

341
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:35,720
want you to believe and this is why it's

342
00:14:41,620 --> 00:14:38,240
bunk if because it just can't

343
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:41,630
historically be accurate my most fun

344
00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:44,480
point to finish the thought is their

345
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,560
addressing of the alien bodies the

346
00:14:52,630 --> 00:14:50,000
explanation for the witnesses that do

347
00:14:56,170 --> 00:14:52,640
come forward with the bodies they say

348
00:14:59,760 --> 00:14:56,180
that they were crash test dummies that

349
00:15:03,400 --> 00:14:59,770
were pushed out of Air Force aircraft

350
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:03,410
testing parachutes and so on and yet the

351
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:05,570
problem was the very first crash-test

352
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:09,290
dummy was not invented until 1949 not

353
00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:10,970
even by the the military's Alderson

354
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:13,700
research labs that was a earliest crash

355
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:15,260
test dummy that is known and documented

356
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,530
as existing Roswell happened in 47 they

357
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:20,240
also tried to explain the bodies in the

358
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:21,440
hospital because obviously you don't

359
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:23,570
take dummies to a hospital so they said

360
00:15:29,860 --> 00:15:26,330
well well those those witnesses they're

361
00:15:31,630 --> 00:15:29,870
seeing injured aircraft pilots a couple

362
00:15:34,450 --> 00:15:31,640
were injured couple were killed through

363
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,460
two separate incidents the problem with

364
00:15:39,270 --> 00:15:36,320
that where those two incidents were nine

365
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:39,280
and twelve years after Roswell happened

366
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,290
right that's how it may get yeah so

367
00:15:46,950 --> 00:15:44,000
either Roswell

368
00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:46,960
there's cover-up or we've now discovered

369
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:49,780
time-traveling crash test dummies and

370
00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:52,550
time-traveling injured or god forbid

371
00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:55,220
killed pilots that can travel back in

372
00:16:00,730 --> 00:15:58,250
time that that's how silly this becomes

373
00:16:03,070 --> 00:16:00,740
when you look below that surface story

374
00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:03,080
so on the surface again looks great

375
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:05,270
sounds great and a lot of people might

376
00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:07,310
even believe it but all you got to do is

377
00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:09,200
look at actual evidence and it tells a

378
00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:09,860
different story

379
00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:12,500
so at the age of fifteen sixteen

380
00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:14,300
seventeen as I was really kind of

381
00:16:19,390 --> 00:16:17,420
digging deep into this and and looking

382
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:19,400
for these answers and and so on I

383
00:16:23,260 --> 00:16:21,710
realized that that was not only true

384
00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:23,270
with Roswell but pretty much anything

385
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:25,790
else that I looked into and that was the

386
00:16:30,730 --> 00:16:28,370
surface story was one thing but evidence

387
00:16:32,770 --> 00:16:30,740
proved something else entirely and you

388
00:16:35,890 --> 00:16:32,780
know that's not any more prevalent then

389
00:16:38,770 --> 00:16:35,900
with you know what we see on the History

390
00:16:39,970 --> 00:16:38,780
Channel now Project Blue Book but we're

391
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,980
going to talk about the real Project

392
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:41,600
Blue Book this bleeds over into chapter

393
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:44,360
three of your book so what was the

394
00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:46,850
biggest dilemma you sort of came across

395
00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:49,580
in terms of Project Blue Book you know

396
00:16:53,950 --> 00:16:51,830
publicly what they have said and what

397
00:16:55,270 --> 00:16:53,960
the documents actually told you when you

398
00:16:57,820 --> 00:16:55,280
started looking into this

399
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:57,830
yeah and now that's the other half of

400
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:00,800
the of the company line and the the myth

401
00:17:04,689 --> 00:17:02,720
Project Blue Book is kind of the

402
00:17:07,569 --> 00:17:04,699
culmination of their trifecta of

403
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:07,579
research programs which which involved

404
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:09,650
project signed project grudge and

405
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:11,839
ultimately blue book blue book being the

406
00:17:16,059 --> 00:17:13,280
one that's more well known

407
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,069
so they investigated well over 12,000

408
00:17:21,939 --> 00:17:19,280
cases from 1947 again collectively

409
00:17:25,569 --> 00:17:21,949
between those three projects from 1947

410
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:25,579
to 1969 that effort ended at the very

411
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:30,590
end of 1969 very early in 1970 and they

412
00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:34,250
again will tell you we researched it

413
00:17:39,130 --> 00:17:36,560
only seven hundred and one of the cases

414
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:39,140
remained unidentified we believe that

415
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:40,370
the only reason they did remain

416
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:43,460
unidentified is lack of facts or lack of

417
00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,640
appropriate evidence to give a proper

418
00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:48,830
identification so we're not interested

419
00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:51,230
in this anymore and and and they're

420
00:17:58,210 --> 00:17:54,980
their kind of final action with all of

421
00:18:01,240 --> 00:17:58,220
this as they created a fact sheet and

422
00:18:04,540 --> 00:18:01,250
the fact sheet in most cases is a single

423
00:18:06,940 --> 00:18:04,550
page typed page with all of the facts

424
00:18:09,310 --> 00:18:06,950
about project Bluebook sign and grudge

425
00:18:11,980 --> 00:18:09,320
and the fact that there's absolutely

426
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:11,990
nothing to the UFO phenomena and that to

427
00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:15,440
me is kind of the the overall synopsis

428
00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:17,480
of what the company line is all about

429
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:20,870
and again surface story sounds great

430
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:23,120
okay they did their due diligence but

431
00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:24,890
when you start looking at the documents

432
00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:26,600
especially with Project Blue Book and

433
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:28,520
I'll be honest with you I I believe

434
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:30,350
Project Blue Book to be a little bit dry

435
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:33,520
but there are quite quite a few gems

436
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,320
hidden within the Project Blue Book

437
00:18:40,810 --> 00:18:39,200
files and I don't know how much you want

438
00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:40,820
to get into some of them but what I will

439
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:44,150
say is as an overall note to this is I

440
00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:46,730
liken it to the scientific pursuit of

441
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:49,670
the for the cure for cancer right and

442
00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:52,010
the reason why I do that is when you do

443
00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:53,720
a scientific approach on something that

444
00:18:57,550 --> 00:18:56,660
you know is probably there but you're

445
00:19:00,010 --> 00:18:57,560
not sure yet because you haven't been

446
00:19:02,110 --> 00:19:00,020
able to prove it yet you start testing

447
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,120
your theories you start testing you

448
00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:03,440
start investigating you start

449
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:07,700
researching you can do 12,000 plus tests

450
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:11,110
on trying to find the cure for cancer if

451
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:14,690
only a select few show promise

452
00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:18,590
if only 701 show promise if only 200

453
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:21,140
show prize about ten doesn't matter do

454
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:23,630
you just give up and go well it was only

455
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:26,510
a couple it was only a couple hundred no

456
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:27,570
because science

457
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:29,940
typically the moment you see evidence

458
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:32,640
that you can get to the end of the

459
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:35,070
tunnel that there is light there that

460
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:36,990
you can maybe make that discovery don't

461
00:19:42,290 --> 00:19:40,440
give up the UFO phenomena research was

462
00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:42,300
supposed to be scientific by the United

463
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:45,180
States military in my opinion it doesn't

464
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:47,280
matter if it was seven hundred and one a

465
00:19:52,910 --> 00:19:49,650
hundred and one are quite possibly even

466
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:52,920
one as long as you show promise that you

467
00:19:58,820 --> 00:19:55,710
cannot explain everything scientifically

468
00:20:01,160 --> 00:19:58,830
you can't just or shouldn't just give up

469
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:01,170
and that's what Project Blue Book did

470
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,170
and that leads to a theory that you know

471
00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:05,760
I'm not trying to take credit for this

472
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:07,070
there's a lot of people that hold this

473
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,960
that you know blue book was not a

474
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:12,000
scientific inquiry it was not an

475
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:14,250
investigation but rather it was an

476
00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:17,460
explanation it was an effort to calm the

477
00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:20,160
nerves of the United States public to

478
00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:21,960
tell them hey look you you you don't

479
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:24,180
care about this topic we can explain

480
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:25,500
everything there's no national security

481
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:28,710
risk so go away and stop asking

482
00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:30,090
questions

483
00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:32,100
because keep in mind in the beginning

484
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:35,700
days of sign and grudge and even well

485
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:39,210
into Blue Book up until about 1966 the

486
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:41,370
Freedom of Information Act

487
00:20:46,670 --> 00:20:43,320
so the public's right to access

488
00:20:48,530 --> 00:20:46,680
information was not there and that's an

489
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,540
important fact that many people don't

490
00:20:52,820 --> 00:20:50,880
don't remember when they're looking at

491
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:52,830
government documents from the 50s let's

492
00:20:57,740 --> 00:20:55,770
say or the early 1960s the people that

493
00:21:01,280 --> 00:20:57,750
wrote them never thought that the

494
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:01,290
general public might ever see them and I

495
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:02,910
think that that's very important for

496
00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:05,130
understanding the approach that they can

497
00:21:10,490 --> 00:21:08,060
blatantly mislead the public with a

498
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:10,500
explanation campaign like Project Blue

499
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:13,950
Book was and so again back to your

500
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:16,140
question and kind of how I explored blue

501
00:21:23,030 --> 00:21:20,730
book in my particular book was going in

502
00:21:25,070 --> 00:21:23,040
and exploring some of those cases and

503
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:25,080
exploring the overall scope of what blue

504
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,050
book was supposed to be and then showing

505
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:31,200
probably why it wasn't that and that the

506
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:34,050
the answer was not that that UFOs were

507
00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:36,570
solvable in fact the intelligence

508
00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:40,590
community the CIA the FBI the Defense

509
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:41,430
Intelligence age

510
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:43,290
see the National Security Agency you

511
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:45,930
name the acronym they all had documents

512
00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:49,290
that stretched far beyond the end of the

513
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:51,750
quote-unquote investigation and I think

514
00:21:56,330 --> 00:21:54,120
it's because they knew that there was no

515
00:22:00,440 --> 00:21:56,340
answer given they were taking those

516
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:00,450
threats very seriously the the UFO cases

517
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:03,510
very seriously the incursions on base

518
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:06,420
very seriously so my whole scope of

519
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:08,370
twenty two years of research

520
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:10,050
once I started kind of putting those

521
00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:11,850
pieces together about the company line

522
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:14,340
was to always go back to the company

523
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:16,500
line as a reference point and continue

524
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:18,570
to disprove at time and time again

525
00:22:24,620 --> 00:22:21,510
because for me that shows the ludicrous

526
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:24,630
nature of this cover-up in the lengths

527
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:26,130
that they will go to to make sure that

528
00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:27,960
you and I don't know about it and

529
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:30,870
Bluebook I think the intent was to make

530
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:34,710
us go away that here in 2019 somewhere

531
00:22:38,570 --> 00:22:36,240
in the skies podcast would not exist

532
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:38,580
that the black vault would not be around

533
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:41,010
because nobody cares about UFOs you know

534
00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:43,620
that nobody nobody nobody cares because

535
00:22:47,570 --> 00:22:45,030
they're all explainable

536
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:47,580
on the contrary though I think the

537
00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:49,050
general public wants more answers

538
00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:51,180
because we don't have them yet yeah yeah

539
00:22:54,740 --> 00:22:53,190
I think they only feel the fire in terms

540
00:22:57,230 --> 00:22:54,750
of that that's right

541
00:22:59,030 --> 00:22:57,240
well John the you mentioned incursions

542
00:23:00,980 --> 00:22:59,040
and military bases and that was a big

543
00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:00,990
part of chapter 8 of your book where you

544
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:03,630
covered UFOs in the military and you

545
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:05,970
cite the Rendlesham forest incident you

546
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:07,380
know many of our listeners may know a

547
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,290
little about it but what other examples

548
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:12,840
did you find in the documentation you

549
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:14,340
know that this was going on that you

550
00:23:19,340 --> 00:23:17,370
know not only were UFOs been seen by

551
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:19,350
civilians but like this was happening on

552
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:23,220
a regular basis to our own military yeah

553
00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:26,370
so what I did like you pointed out

554
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:29,220
Rendlesham as a big one we know of but

555
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:30,720
part of that I don't want to beat a dead

556
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:32,310
horse but part of that company line is

557
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,050
the national security aspect to this and

558
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:36,000
they seemingly punched that quite a bit

559
00:23:42,020 --> 00:23:39,210
and and the national security aspect to

560
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:42,030
this to me the evidence is so damning

561
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:44,430
and overwhelming it's hard for me to

562
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:45,810
believe that they would even say this

563
00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:48,030
but they claim that whatever this

564
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:51,540
phenomena is whatever UFOs are it does

565
00:23:54,790 --> 00:23:53,310
not pose a threat to national security

566
00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:54,800
so what I did was I just

567
00:23:59,950 --> 00:23:56,510
into the archive and look for all of the

568
00:24:02,650 --> 00:23:59,960
military base incursions especially

569
00:24:06,010 --> 00:24:02,660
those with nuclear weapons and some

570
00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:06,020
really powerful weaponry where UFOs were

571
00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:08,030
seemingly able to fly in and out

572
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:11,720
whenever and wherever they wanted in

573
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:14,810
inside Loring Air Force Base inside

574
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:16,850
wordsmith Air Force Base where they

575
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,310
store these incredibly powerful weapons

576
00:24:23,770 --> 00:24:21,200
in these incredibly sensitive areas

577
00:24:25,540 --> 00:24:23,780
these UFOs are just flying in like it

578
00:24:27,550 --> 00:24:25,550
ain't no thing and then flying right

579
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:27,560
back out doing whatever they want and

580
00:24:31,420 --> 00:24:28,990
they've never been able to catch them

581
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:31,430
they've never been able to identify them

582
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:33,530
it wasn't farmer Bob and his crop duster

583
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:35,120
who veered off course because he was

584
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:38,080
drinking too much it literally were

585
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:40,880
intelligently controlled craft doing

586
00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:43,010
maneuvers that they could not that the

587
00:24:48,970 --> 00:24:45,320
United States military on a sensitive

588
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:48,980
installation could not ever identify and

589
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:51,110
that's just not one or two cases and

590
00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:53,090
I've always wanted to stress that there

591
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,400
are multiple incursions and I mean I

592
00:25:00,700 --> 00:24:58,400
line them up I in Chapter eight and and

593
00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:00,710
surrounding chapters of these cases

594
00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:03,590
where UFOs are seen in and around these

595
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:05,630
military bases and they just can't

596
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:07,940
identify them that's something that's

597
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,250
big and to me by definition that is a

598
00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:12,320
threat to national security if it comes

599
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:14,300
down that it's the Canadian military and

600
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:16,400
you know they're able to like come in

601
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:18,050
and snoop around cool but we should

602
00:25:23,950 --> 00:25:20,870
investigate it know that right I mean is

603
00:25:26,590 --> 00:25:23,960
is as mundane as the explanation may be

604
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:26,600
we need to figure it out and the

605
00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:28,250
government has been so adamant about

606
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:30,860
saying we are not interested in this

607
00:25:35,650 --> 00:25:33,650
that we don't care about it to me that's

608
00:25:38,050 --> 00:25:35,660
part of the alarming part of the story

609
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:38,060
now obviously you know in the last week

610
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:41,510
or so the military seemingly is starting

611
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:44,510
to address this issue and quite possibly

612
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:46,880
the Navy is generating guidelines and

613
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:48,020
I'm guessing you and I will get into

614
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:50,720
that later but so there may be a shift

615
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:53,750
and I hope there is a shift but but for

616
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:55,640
decades and decades after project

617
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,770
Bluebook the government and military has

618
00:26:01,660 --> 00:25:59,120
been very adamant about saying hey we

619
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:01,670
don't care and yet on the contrary you

620
00:26:06,730 --> 00:26:03,110
look at the government documents and you

621
00:26:08,530 --> 00:26:06,740
go no actually they did care and they

622
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:08,540
couldn't do anything about it

623
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:10,880
and so the existence of those cases and

624
00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:13,310
the existence of those documents really

625
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:15,140
puts the nail in the coffin about a

626
00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:18,050
cover-up on this on this very topic the

627
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:19,940
staggering amount of documents you found

628
00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:23,360
in terms of that when put together is

629
00:26:27,580 --> 00:26:25,940
it's it's hard to read man because it's

630
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:27,590
like are you kidding me like how dumb

631
00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:30,050
can they think we are that this job

632
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:32,180
posing some sort of threat I mean that I

633
00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:34,010
mean it continued into Chapter nine two

634
00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:35,420
of your book where you covered one of my

635
00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:37,880
favorite topics within ufology and that

636
00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:40,040
is the connection between UFO sightings

637
00:26:45,970 --> 00:26:42,470
in nuclear bases and you were able to

638
00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:45,980
find so many of these that it absolutely

639
00:26:50,770 --> 00:26:48,140
terrified me so which one of those

640
00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:50,780
really stood out for you most John well

641
00:26:55,180 --> 00:26:53,150
yeah there are an overwhelming amount of

642
00:26:56,980 --> 00:26:55,190
incursion some are more well-known than

643
00:26:59,790 --> 00:26:56,990
others the one that stood out to me

644
00:27:03,220 --> 00:26:59,800
which was very telling was when I did a

645
00:27:05,380 --> 00:27:03,230
FOIA request to the the NRC or the

646
00:27:06,730 --> 00:27:05,390
Nuclear Regulatory Commission and they

647
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:06,740
kind of oversee our nuclear

648
00:27:11,770 --> 00:27:09,770
installations now what is the draw to

649
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:11,780
some of these military bases is it the

650
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:14,720
nuclear weapons there is it nuclear

651
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:17,510
material at all so I thought a couple

652
00:27:21,550 --> 00:27:19,610
years back you know I'd never hit the

653
00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:21,560
NRC with a FOIA request and why not do

654
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:24,380
it and sure enough the NRC came back

655
00:27:30,970 --> 00:27:27,410
with UFO records but one stood out and

656
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:30,980
it was a security officer at what was

657
00:27:37,690 --> 00:27:34,730
called Cooper Nuclear Station it wasn't

658
00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:37,700
it wasn't a military base per se with

659
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,470
with nuclear weapons but rather a place

660
00:27:43,810 --> 00:27:42,080
with nuclear material and so I know this

661
00:27:45,610 --> 00:27:43,820
is varying a little bit off of your

662
00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:45,620
topic but again it reinforces this

663
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:47,870
overall scope that whatever UFOs are

664
00:27:52,210 --> 00:27:49,970
they're seemingly attracted to either

665
00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:52,220
nuclear weapons or nuclear installations

666
00:27:58,300 --> 00:27:55,640
and so this base security guard had seen

667
00:28:00,520 --> 00:27:58,310
a UFO and the nutshell version is he's

668
00:28:04,150 --> 00:28:00,530
watching this UFO he goes in he tries to

669
00:28:06,370 --> 00:28:04,160
get his fellow security guards to come

670
00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:06,380
out and take a look by the time that

671
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,750
they came out and took took a look they

672
00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:10,880
the UFO was gone

673
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:13,280
and so they literally laughed at him and

674
00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:15,260
the report goes into detail about how

675
00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:17,270
the guy was laughed at and then they all

676
00:28:20,290 --> 00:28:18,470
didn't believe him they thought he was

677
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:20,300
crazy they went back inside and that was

678
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:22,370
it now fast-forward to the next

679
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:24,440
the next night the UFOs came back there

680
00:28:29,169 --> 00:28:27,650
were more than one and so this time the

681
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:29,179
guy goes in he's not gonna get laughed

682
00:28:34,539 --> 00:28:32,510
at he says come out now the UFOs Iraq

683
00:28:37,180 --> 00:28:34,549
and sure enough that one witness now

684
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:37,190
turned into about a dozen so they were

685
00:28:46,269 --> 00:28:40,480
watching these you know UFOs and and

686
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:46,279
Cooper Nuclear Station is in Nebraska

687
00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:49,520
and a Brownville to be exact and so

688
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:51,590
they're there watching this thing and

689
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:53,809
and you know they could never really

690
00:28:58,299 --> 00:28:55,730
ultimately explain it the objects are

691
00:28:59,799 --> 00:28:58,309
not supposed to be there and that was

692
00:29:01,419 --> 00:28:59,809
kind of the end of the event we don't

693
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:01,429
really know what happened after that now

694
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:04,250
the documents were the fact that that

695
00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:06,289
security guard never or the security

696
00:29:11,620 --> 00:29:08,870
guards all of them never made a report

697
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:11,630
they never told their superiors hey

698
00:29:16,899 --> 00:29:14,690
while on duty we saw these UFOs they

699
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,909
came in there in places you're not

700
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:18,880
supposed to be in this nuclear station

701
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:21,890
so we got to do something about it on

702
00:29:26,380 --> 00:29:24,770
the contrary it's like that the the guy

703
00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:26,390
that got laughed at at first and then

704
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:27,950
everyone saw it and they're like we

705
00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:30,770
can't see anything so let's just keep it

706
00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:32,840
to ourselves and they did and they never

707
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:34,760
they never file a report

708
00:29:40,659 --> 00:29:38,000
years later that one initial security

709
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:40,669
guard it apparently was bugging him and

710
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:44,090
he made a report to the NRC about his

711
00:29:50,649 --> 00:29:48,130
experience and went into detail about

712
00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:50,659
what he saw and what he experienced over

713
00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:53,870
the two nights and contrary to what you

714
00:29:59,490 --> 00:29:56,419
might think that they wouldn't care the

715
00:30:01,779 --> 00:29:59,500
NRC took the report made it official

716
00:30:04,590 --> 00:30:01,789
sent it over to present-day Cooper

717
00:30:07,810 --> 00:30:04,600
Nuclear Station gave them a need-to-know

718
00:30:10,539 --> 00:30:07,820
basis meaning that they they didn't

719
00:30:13,330 --> 00:30:10,549
ultimately classify it but they kept it

720
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:13,340
in secret they said only tell people

721
00:30:20,289 --> 00:30:16,190
that have a need to know about these

722
00:30:24,669 --> 00:30:20,299
security concerns meaning you know be on

723
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:24,679
the lookout for UFOs now that's one that

724
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:26,510
sticks out to me that again kind of

725
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:28,730
proves that there is something there's

726
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:31,760
something to nuclear facilities nuclear

727
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:34,990
weapons what it is I don't know

728
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:37,480
I struggle with it but but that is the

729
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:40,390
reality of kind of what happened and so

730
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:41,710
that was one document that came out that

731
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:44,799
that that encounter had never been

732
00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:47,260
documented before that was a brand new

733
00:30:52,529 --> 00:30:50,020
case a brand new UFO case that had never

734
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:52,539
been out before so I know I veered a

735
00:30:56,610 --> 00:30:54,250
little bit away from the military itself

736
00:30:59,460 --> 00:30:56,620
no but it but it but it shows that

737
00:31:01,889 --> 00:30:59,470
whatever again this phenomena is there

738
00:31:04,889 --> 00:31:01,899
is an attraction that goes throughout

739
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:04,899
the decades to military facilities are

740
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:07,840
those military bases that store nuclear

741
00:31:13,049 --> 00:31:11,080
weapons and I think that that's it's

742
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:13,059
something that we need to look at what

743
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:15,490
what what that means I'm not sure but

744
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:16,990
it's definitely something that we would

745
00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:20,080
need to to look at the last thing I will

746
00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:22,600
say about that report is that it

747
00:31:28,380 --> 00:31:26,230
actually came years after the government

748
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:28,390
said that they were interested in UFOs

749
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:31,230
and then these came out in about 2000

750
00:31:40,529 --> 00:31:36,730
2010 that yeah that they took the guys

751
00:31:42,510 --> 00:31:40,539
report seriously in in 2010 so my point

752
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:42,520
with that is that this is recent that

753
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,490
people are coming out with stories that

754
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:47,679
they have experienced in their past and

755
00:31:52,769 --> 00:31:50,130
the government is taking it seriously

756
00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:52,779
the security guard he didn't remember

757
00:31:59,600 --> 00:31:56,380
exactly the year but he reported it to

758
00:32:03,090 --> 00:31:59,610
the NRC in 2010 and he didn't make any

759
00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:03,100
you know wild outlandish claims I mean

760
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,750
there's really kind of no indication

761
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:06,880
that there was any fabrication or

762
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:09,039
anything like that with the story it

763
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:10,960
just had bugged him for that many years

764
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:12,730
and he says I got to do something about

765
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:16,450
this and that's what he did he he put in

766
00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:17,860
the report and they all made it official

767
00:32:23,220 --> 00:32:21,220
hey man I the more people that come

768
00:32:24,269 --> 00:32:23,230
forward and do that the more you know

769
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:24,279
I'm willing to believe that there is

770
00:32:28,289 --> 00:32:26,350
something to it and yeah we could

771
00:32:30,299 --> 00:32:28,299
hypothesize why there's all these

772
00:32:32,010 --> 00:32:30,309
connections to the nuclear bases but at

773
00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:32,020
the end of the day the the amount of

774
00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:34,390
reports is enough to be like something's

775
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:37,299
going on so exactly you did mention

776
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:40,090
John's secrecy which is another big part

777
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:42,279
later in the book that I definitely

778
00:32:46,919 --> 00:32:44,529
wanted to touch on there's many reasons

779
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:46,929
why the government would handle UFO

780
00:32:49,630 --> 00:32:47,630
reports with

781
00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:49,640
level of secrecy and I get that I

782
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:52,070
totally understand that and you give

783
00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:53,870
your thoughts on this too in the book so

784
00:32:57,850 --> 00:32:55,670
could you maybe run us through some of

785
00:32:59,920 --> 00:32:57,860
these reasons why you think there has to

786
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:59,930
be secrecy when it comes to this in the

787
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:02,480
government yeah I think when it comes

788
00:33:05,710 --> 00:33:04,310
down to it there's multiple level that's

789
00:33:08,380 --> 00:33:05,720
why I use the plural version of

790
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,390
phenomenon where I believe there's

791
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:10,880
multiple facets to the UFO phenomena I

792
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:13,810
believe that you can tackle the

793
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:15,890
explanations behind secrecy in a couple

794
00:33:19,420 --> 00:33:17,810
different ways I do believe that there

795
00:33:21,850 --> 00:33:19,430
are a high percentage of people that

796
00:33:23,410 --> 00:33:21,860
everyday people that are walking around

797
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:23,420
the streets or hanging out in their

798
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:24,980
backyard or whatever they're doing that

799
00:33:30,670 --> 00:33:27,410
are seeing things that potentially are

800
00:33:33,310 --> 00:33:30,680
UFOs to them but our testing of either

801
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,320
top-secret technology or you know

802
00:33:37,180 --> 00:33:34,880
something in development that we don't

803
00:33:40,450 --> 00:33:37,190
know about yet so there has to be a

804
00:33:43,180 --> 00:33:40,460
level of secrecy and kind of an aura of

805
00:33:45,730 --> 00:33:43,190
a cover-up anyway naturally because of

806
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:45,740
stuff like that we know that before the

807
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:47,810
b-2 stealth bomber was announced you

808
00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:51,350
know that that thing was probably the

809
00:33:56,050 --> 00:33:53,960
cause of a couple of the UFO sightings

810
00:33:58,540 --> 00:33:56,060
around the the timeframe when they were

811
00:34:00,850 --> 00:33:58,550
flying it I mean you can't always keep

812
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:00,860
these types of aircraft that are

813
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:03,890
traveling at high speeds confined to

814
00:34:09,310 --> 00:34:07,070
area 51 granted it's a big area but when

815
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:09,320
you're going with fat in the going away

816
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:11,210
from the b2 with this comment but when

817
00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:12,889
you're going incredibly fast and you're

818
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:14,870
testing that technology I mean you can't

819
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:16,370
just fly around in a circle in your

820
00:34:20,770 --> 00:34:19,129
backyard you you know you got to open it

821
00:34:24,129 --> 00:34:20,780
up a little bit and you got to start

822
00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:24,139
traversing the United States and as a

823
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:25,700
result people are gonna see things but

824
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:28,100
but then all of a sudden you're the the

825
00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:30,710
the government has the greatest tool

826
00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:32,360
that they can use and that is the

827
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:34,580
general public's fascination with UFOs

828
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:36,770
because all of a sudden a testing of a

829
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:38,690
top-secret aircraft somebody thinks it's

830
00:34:43,659 --> 00:34:40,490
alien and the story is just kind of

831
00:34:45,730 --> 00:34:43,669
mostly disregarded anyway so I mean not

832
00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:45,740
to be a pessimist about that but I mean

833
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:47,629
that is a tool we have to consider that

834
00:34:52,030 --> 00:34:49,610
so there is a level of secrecy that I

835
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,040
feel is warranted and it needs to be

836
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,800
maintained the other part of it too is

837
00:34:59,260 --> 00:34:56,960
when you talk about the military pilots

838
00:35:00,970 --> 00:34:59,270
themselves the military bases that are

839
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:00,980
experiencing these encounters some of

840
00:35:03,339 --> 00:35:01,369
which we

841
00:35:05,529 --> 00:35:03,349
talked about but they can't explain them

842
00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:05,539
now you have a whole different facet on

843
00:35:11,049 --> 00:35:08,420
why you need that secrecy and although

844
00:35:13,329 --> 00:35:11,059
this isn't popular with some circles we

845
00:35:15,339 --> 00:35:13,339
have to consider that the United States

846
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:15,349
government and the military is not in

847
00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:17,450
collusion with aliens and they know all

848
00:35:22,450 --> 00:35:19,910
about this and they're all knowing the

849
00:35:26,319 --> 00:35:22,460
general public who believes that have a

850
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:26,329
very in my opinion inflated idea of the

851
00:35:30,999 --> 00:35:28,609
government intelligence that's really

852
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:31,009
they're not to put them down but what I

853
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:32,960
mean by that is there is a huge

854
00:35:36,910 --> 00:35:35,569
possibility that they don't know what

855
00:35:39,849 --> 00:35:36,920
the heck this is there is no

856
00:35:41,859 --> 00:35:39,859
communication and that in itself is the

857
00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:41,869
threat to national security not

858
00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:43,849
necessarily that aliens are out there

859
00:35:49,390 --> 00:35:46,220
it's there's this phenomena that they

860
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:49,400
cannot explain the the men and women

861
00:35:54,220 --> 00:35:51,249
that are flying the most powerful

862
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,230
weapons in the most advanced technology

863
00:35:59,380 --> 00:35:56,720
around the globe they are seeing things

864
00:36:01,720 --> 00:35:59,390
that they cannot identify they reported

865
00:36:05,319 --> 00:36:01,730
and the up the upper echelon can't

866
00:36:07,329 --> 00:36:05,329
identify it that in itself is a huge

867
00:36:09,279 --> 00:36:07,339
threat to national security

868
00:36:13,029 --> 00:36:09,289
because jump ahead to a hypothetical if

869
00:36:15,729 --> 00:36:13,039
they came out and they said ok look UFOs

870
00:36:19,569 --> 00:36:15,739
are real our military pilots are seeing

871
00:36:22,329 --> 00:36:19,579
them and and we've investigated them for

872
00:36:24,759 --> 00:36:22,339
decades and we cannot determine what

873
00:36:27,489 --> 00:36:24,769
they are some we can figure out but but

874
00:36:29,339 --> 00:36:27,499
a lot of them we cannot if you have the

875
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:29,349
most powerful nation in the world

876
00:36:36,910 --> 00:36:33,200
telling their people we have something

877
00:36:39,279 --> 00:36:36,920
above our heads that we cannot combat we

878
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:39,289
cannot communicate with and we do not

879
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:42,170
understand that in itself is a threat to

880
00:36:46,660 --> 00:36:44,089
national security I'm not saying that's

881
00:36:49,029 --> 00:36:46,670
exactly how it is I'm saying that to me

882
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:49,039
is probably the biggest possibility here

883
00:36:54,099 --> 00:36:51,710
so there you can approach the secrecy

884
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:54,109
thing a few different ways so now it's

885
00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:55,730
not the government is maliciously

886
00:36:59,529 --> 00:36:57,950
keeping a secret from you they know

887
00:37:01,989 --> 00:36:59,539
everything they have all the answers

888
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:01,999
it's quite possibly they have no answers

889
00:37:07,450 --> 00:37:04,400
to give you and the fact that they have

890
00:37:09,009 --> 00:37:07,460
no answers to give you is the threat to

891
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:09,019
national security and that's what they

892
00:37:13,660 --> 00:37:12,170
have to avoid so I I wrestle with it I

893
00:37:15,099 --> 00:37:13,670
struggle with it but there's there's a

894
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:15,109
few possibilities that

895
00:37:19,749 --> 00:37:17,569
that that's just a kind of name a few

896
00:37:21,579 --> 00:37:19,759
for you absolutely and I struggle with

897
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:21,589
that too every day you know one day I'm

898
00:37:26,229 --> 00:37:24,529
saying government doesn't know stay

899
00:37:27,969 --> 00:37:26,239
I'm saying uh oh wait but there's this

900
00:37:30,430 --> 00:37:27,979
one case where they you know they

901
00:37:34,749 --> 00:37:30,440
admitted this blah blah so yeah it's so

902
00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:34,759
you know such a toxic relationship as it

903
00:37:39,370 --> 00:37:36,920
were in terms of the secrecy and the

904
00:37:41,799 --> 00:37:39,380
threat that it could it could be we our

905
00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:41,809
greatest enemy possibly when it comes to

906
00:37:46,809 --> 00:37:43,640
how naive we are of what these things

907
00:37:48,999 --> 00:37:46,819
might be or represent so it's it's

908
00:37:51,130 --> 00:37:49,009
terrifying both ways you look at it in

909
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:51,140
my opinion no it absolutely is

910
00:37:55,329 --> 00:37:52,400
terrifying yeah

911
00:37:58,509 --> 00:37:55,339
so I'm chapters 13 and 14 John you

912
00:38:00,249 --> 00:37:58,519
really shed some light on the lengths in

913
00:38:02,650 --> 00:38:00,259
which the government sometimes will go

914
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:02,660
when it comes to the secrecy in

915
00:38:06,999 --> 00:38:05,209
pretending to releasing these documents

916
00:38:09,579 --> 00:38:07,009
so could you tell us a little bit about

917
00:38:11,949 --> 00:38:09,589
service and what this entailed this is

918
00:38:14,229 --> 00:38:11,959
one of the best stories that I've come

919
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:14,239
across that you've told out there so

920
00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:16,130
yeah if I'm sharing that with our

921
00:38:19,390 --> 00:38:16,670
audience

922
00:38:21,339 --> 00:38:19,400
of course yeah so throughout the years

923
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:21,349
there have been reporting procedures for

924
00:38:26,829 --> 00:38:24,529
for UFOs through Project Blue Book they

925
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:26,839
have various Air Force manuals even

926
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:30,440
after blue book closed janap 146 or a

927
00:38:36,939 --> 00:38:33,049
joint Army Navy Air Force publication

928
00:38:39,309 --> 00:38:36,949
was one that outlined how to report UFOs

929
00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:39,319
now I was always intrigued by this it

930
00:38:43,630 --> 00:38:40,880
was rescinded and off the books but

931
00:38:46,329 --> 00:38:43,640
remained for quite a long time after

932
00:38:49,569 --> 00:38:46,339
Project Blue Book closed but the type of

933
00:38:52,329 --> 00:38:49,579
reports within janap 146 so if you were

934
00:38:54,009 --> 00:38:52,339
a Navy pilot or an Air Force pilot or a

935
00:38:55,779 --> 00:38:54,019
Canadian pilot because it's actually

936
00:38:58,209 --> 00:38:55,789
applied to the Canadian Forces as well

937
00:39:03,039 --> 00:38:58,219
if you saw a UFO they were called

938
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,049
service reports Cir vis and that acronym

939
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:05,119
stands for communication instructions

940
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:06,650
for reporting vital intelligence

941
00:39:10,839 --> 00:39:08,930
sightings yes it gets very confusing

942
00:39:12,999 --> 00:39:10,849
with acronyms so if anybody is

943
00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:13,009
scratching their heads don't worry I do

944
00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:14,630
this all the time and I scratch my head

945
00:39:18,459 --> 00:39:16,670
every day so it's very tough to

946
00:39:21,249 --> 00:39:18,469
sometimes read some of these documents

947
00:39:23,739 --> 00:39:21,259
that have 800 acronyms on it but that

948
00:39:26,589 --> 00:39:23,749
being said service reports I knew were

949
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:26,599
the key to this but janab 146 I believed

950
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:28,130
was off the books at the time when I

951
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:28,970
started tackling

952
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:31,090
this was probably in the late 90s and

953
00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:33,440
and I just wanted to kind of give some

954
00:39:37,359 --> 00:39:35,030
groundwork for a discovery that came

955
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:37,369
later on but that's what what service

956
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:39,290
was all about and I started kind of

957
00:39:43,780 --> 00:39:41,690
sifting through trying to find where

958
00:39:45,339 --> 00:39:43,790
these documents were the thing that

959
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:45,349
always bothered me about this even

960
00:39:48,940 --> 00:39:47,090
though it was interesting was that it

961
00:39:51,130 --> 00:39:48,950
applied to Canadian troops as well as

962
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:51,140
already mentioned so I was looking for

963
00:39:56,170 --> 00:39:53,570
the US cover up nothing against my

964
00:39:57,970 --> 00:39:56,180
friends in the north but it was

965
00:40:00,220 --> 00:39:57,980
something that I wanted to focus in it

966
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:00,230
was a it was an ability for the military

967
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,450
to say well yeah janap 1:46 was around

968
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:04,640
but it was mostly for the Canadian guys

969
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:06,530
we didn't care and you know we didn't

970
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:08,750
report anything and this and that I'm

971
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:11,770
always looking for ways to circumvent

972
00:40:16,359 --> 00:40:14,270
comments like that or reactions or

973
00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:16,369
explanations like that either by the

974
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:19,160
military or the skeptics who love to

975
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:21,890
attack people like me that come out with

976
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:23,090
actual evidence and so they

977
00:40:25,810 --> 00:40:24,410
short-circuit and they go oh let's just

978
00:40:27,849 --> 00:40:25,820
make something up and try and make John

979
00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:27,859
look bad so what I try and do is think

980
00:40:31,390 --> 00:40:29,480
ahead and look at every possible

981
00:40:34,329 --> 00:40:31,400
scenario so that was what bothered me

982
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,339
about janap 146 so it was purely by

983
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:37,280
accident that I couldn't believe it was

984
00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:39,310
this long ago but in the year 2000

985
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:42,260
Google really wasn't a thing yet it was

986
00:40:48,609 --> 00:40:45,470
Alta Vista was the not to age myself but

987
00:40:52,510 --> 00:40:48,619
the Alta Vista was the search engine of

988
00:40:54,750 --> 00:40:52,520
the day and I even then you searched

989
00:40:57,579 --> 00:40:54,760
UFOs and you know you come up with

990
00:40:59,380 --> 00:40:57,589
hundreds of thousands now it's like

991
00:41:01,060 --> 00:40:59,390
eight or ten million if not more I

992
00:41:03,490 --> 00:41:01,070
forget what the exact number is now but

993
00:41:05,410 --> 00:41:03,500
anyway I was searching for survey's

994
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,420
thinking well maybe someone's written

995
00:41:09,970 --> 00:41:07,280
something about it and there was a

996
00:41:13,630 --> 00:41:09,980
couple references to janap 146 nothing

997
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:13,640
of relevance or nothing new I should say

998
00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:15,290
I mean it was all just Jan up 146

999
00:41:20,859 --> 00:41:17,359
references which I had already kind of

1000
00:41:23,260 --> 00:41:20,869
sifted through and the last link I still

1001
00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:23,270
have the print out of it I I don't know

1002
00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:25,460
why I printed it out on my I think it

1003
00:41:31,089 --> 00:41:28,460
was a bubble jet printer way back in the

1004
00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:31,099
day and but I still have it and the last

1005
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:35,270
result was a reference to an AFM il

1006
00:41:41,410 --> 00:41:38,710
address which is an Air Force server

1007
00:41:42,430 --> 00:41:41,420
referencing an Air Force instruction

1008
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:42,440
10-2 s

1009
00:41:46,779 --> 00:41:44,930
six and I thought what the heck is that

1010
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:46,789
that's that middle air force why is it

1011
00:41:50,650 --> 00:41:48,650
coming up with service I clicked on the

1012
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:50,660
link it was broken so it didn't work so

1013
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:52,250
I had to go through the FOIA to get it

1014
00:41:57,579 --> 00:41:54,530
after a couple months I got it and

1015
00:42:01,059 --> 00:41:57,589
realized that Chapter five of this Air

1016
00:42:03,339 --> 00:42:01,069
Force manual was all about UFOs and it

1017
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:03,349
was all about reporting these

1018
00:42:12,339 --> 00:42:10,010
unidentified flying objects do you enjoy

1019
00:42:14,799 --> 00:42:12,349
true stories of the supernatural from

1020
00:42:16,750 --> 00:42:14,809
the people who experienced it well then

1021
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:16,760
you might like my show Jim Harold's

1022
00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:19,190
campfire hi I'm Jim and we've been doing

1023
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:22,700
the show since 2009 and we talk about

1024
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,430
ghosts cryptic creatures UFOs head

1025
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:27,920
scratchers you name it and you tune in

1026
00:42:33,279 --> 00:42:29,930
you might hear a story like this one and

1027
00:42:36,789 --> 00:42:33,289
as he was driving home he encountered a

1028
00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:36,799
shadow person who seemed to be dressed

1029
00:42:42,279 --> 00:42:38,900
like a monk I know that sounds very

1030
00:42:46,059 --> 00:42:42,289
strange but it was a solid black form

1031
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:46,069
and it was wearing a hooded cloak tied

1032
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:49,970
at the waist with the cloak up and it

1033
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:53,170
had glowing red eyes he sees this thing

1034
00:42:59,920 --> 00:42:57,410
coming out of a really teeny abandoned

1035
00:43:01,779 --> 00:42:59,930
Cemetery if you haven't tuned in I hope

1036
00:43:04,650 --> 00:43:01,789
you'll check us out you can find us on

1037
00:43:07,329 --> 00:43:04,660
Apple podcasts Spotify and wherever

1038
00:43:09,549 --> 00:43:07,339
podcasts are heard it's Jim Harold's

1039
00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:09,559
campfire and you can find it at Jim

1040
00:43:16,809 --> 00:43:11,990
Harold calm thanks so much and stay

1041
00:43:19,299 --> 00:43:16,819
spooky now what's important about this

1042
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:19,309
well it's the year 2000 when I first

1043
00:43:24,819 --> 00:43:21,650
figured this out remember that same

1044
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:24,829
agency the United States Air Force said

1045
00:43:29,230 --> 00:43:27,440
in 1969 we just don't care anymore they

1046
00:43:34,809 --> 00:43:29,240
closed their investigation in January of

1047
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:34,819
70 so from 1970 to 2000 they've never

1048
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:37,910
had an interest yet here's a manual that

1049
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:40,490
outlines exactly how to report them and

1050
00:43:44,410 --> 00:43:42,170
I watched the progression of it I

1051
00:43:45,789 --> 00:43:44,420
written about it lectured about it I had

1052
00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:45,799
produced a couple History Channel shows

1053
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:48,920
at this time it was in two shows that I

1054
00:43:54,970 --> 00:43:52,000
recall but nothing really a major

1055
00:43:55,650 --> 00:43:54,980
spotlight I felt it was newsworthy but

1056
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:55,660
you know it's not

1057
00:44:01,720 --> 00:43:58,130
breaking news type story so it's not

1058
00:44:05,470 --> 00:44:01,730
like it ended up on CNN and fast forward

1059
00:44:07,210 --> 00:44:05,480
to about I believe 2008 or so and leaf

1060
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:07,220
Spiegel from The Huffington Post had

1061
00:44:10,780 --> 00:44:09,410
contacted me I've been friends with Lee

1062
00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:10,790
for many many years have a lot of

1063
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:13,030
respect for him he does his homework and

1064
00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:16,010
he says hey John I want to do a story on

1065
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:18,470
the black vault a very common question

1066
00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:20,450
that's asked to me and which is one he

1067
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:23,390
asked was you know what give me the five

1068
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:25,250
top documents that you would point out

1069
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:28,130
so I gave him a couple 10 - 2:06 was one

1070
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:29,930
of them what was interesting at this

1071
00:44:35,710 --> 00:44:32,720
point was that 10 - 2:06 had had been

1072
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:35,720
updated many times from 2000 to about

1073
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:38,180
2008 or so when I was talking to Lee

1074
00:44:42,310 --> 00:44:40,730
about doing the story and the reason why

1075
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:42,320
I bring that up is it shows that it's an

1076
00:44:47,350 --> 00:44:45,890
active publication because sometimes

1077
00:44:49,930 --> 00:44:47,360
with the military I know this comes as a

1078
00:44:51,070 --> 00:44:49,940
shock but sometimes they're just not

1079
00:44:53,050 --> 00:44:51,080
thorough

1080
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:53,060
and they'll leave things on the books

1081
00:44:57,490 --> 00:44:54,680
that aren't relevant and they don't

1082
00:44:58,990 --> 00:44:57,500
officially rescind them or cancel them

1083
00:45:00,190 --> 00:44:59,000
or take them off the books until they

1084
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:00,200
you know it's brought to their attention

1085
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:05,630
or they remember or whatever and with 10

1086
00:45:10,330 --> 00:45:08,330
- to 0-6 it was updated quite a few

1087
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:10,340
times so that showed that it was active

1088
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:14,450
in Chapter five with service and UFOs

1089
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:16,730
and it specifically said UFOs you know

1090
00:45:21,310 --> 00:45:19,490
there was no change of the acronym no

1091
00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:21,320
you AP's know nothing it was

1092
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:23,390
unidentified flying objects black and

1093
00:45:29,470 --> 00:45:26,720
white that always remained so also by

1094
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:29,480
this time I showed Lee that they could

1095
00:45:34,030 --> 00:45:31,310
that he could download it anybody could

1096
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:34,040
download it from the Air Force's website

1097
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:36,650
which is what I had him do and he

1098
00:45:40,570 --> 00:45:38,360
downloads it and even though it's not

1099
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,580
like he doubted me but when you download

1100
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:42,800
it from the military directly it gives

1101
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:46,730
it an all new aura of legitimacy again

1102
00:45:50,530 --> 00:45:48,260
even though there were no doubts it's

1103
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:50,540
like the military just put this on their

1104
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:53,570
server and sent it to my computer that

1105
00:45:58,420 --> 00:45:56,480
that's you know fairly interesting so a

1106
00:46:00,490 --> 00:45:58,430
couple days later he did what any good

1107
00:46:01,750 --> 00:46:00,500
investigative journalist would do and I

1108
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:01,760
point this out every time I tell the

1109
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:03,890
story even though we were friends and

1110
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:06,410
even though you know he had had my side

1111
00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:08,450
and I wasn't lying he turned around

1112
00:46:10,959 --> 00:46:09,049
called

1113
00:46:14,709 --> 00:46:10,969
and that that's why I'm glad because

1114
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:14,719
they should respond to this so he had to

1115
00:46:20,139 --> 00:46:17,209
leave a message but he was looking for a

1116
00:46:21,999 --> 00:46:20,149
response to 10 - 2 0 6 and you know

1117
00:46:25,029 --> 00:46:22,009
wanted to see what their reaction was

1118
00:46:27,999 --> 00:46:25,039
and days go by and a couple days go by

1119
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:28,009
and nothing so it was late on a Friday

1120
00:46:32,259 --> 00:46:30,649
night I'll remember this because I was

1121
00:46:33,639 --> 00:46:32,269
visiting my sister here in Southern

1122
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:33,649
California she lives about two hours

1123
00:46:39,969 --> 00:46:36,169
away from me and I was driving back that

1124
00:46:41,949 --> 00:46:39,979
night which is why I kind of remember

1125
00:46:43,569 --> 00:46:41,959
the story and he calls me and I'm out

1126
00:46:45,279 --> 00:46:43,579
there not in front of a computer he says

1127
00:46:47,469 --> 00:46:45,289
John you're not gonna believe this now

1128
00:46:48,819 --> 00:46:47,479
it's late for me on the west coast that

1129
00:46:50,620 --> 00:46:48,829
mean and he's on the East Coast I mean

1130
00:46:52,539 --> 00:46:50,630
it's really late for him so this must be

1131
00:46:53,409 --> 00:46:52,549
important and he says John you're not

1132
00:46:55,749 --> 00:46:53,419
gonna believe this

1133
00:46:57,429 --> 00:46:55,759
you know air force Manuel 10 - 2 0 6

1134
00:46:59,469 --> 00:46:57,439
which at this point I know this is

1135
00:47:01,599 --> 00:46:59,479
confusing because I said the air force

1136
00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:01,609
instruction earlier the instruction

1137
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:03,380
turned into a manual as the years went

1138
00:47:08,409 --> 00:47:06,319
on it's the heads I know it's strange

1139
00:47:10,029 --> 00:47:08,419
with verbiage but in the interest of

1140
00:47:11,889 --> 00:47:10,039
accuracy that that's why I'm using a

1141
00:47:14,109 --> 00:47:11,899
different term now so he says air force

1142
00:47:15,729 --> 00:47:14,119
manual 10 - 2 0 6 I said yeah he says

1143
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:15,739
it's gone I said what are you talking

1144
00:47:20,769 --> 00:47:18,529
about and he says well Chapter five it's

1145
00:47:21,759 --> 00:47:20,779
gone it's missing he says it's rewritten

1146
00:47:24,969 --> 00:47:21,769
and now has something to do with

1147
00:47:26,319 --> 00:47:24,979
hurricanes I'd say ok well I just

1148
00:47:27,789 --> 00:47:26,329
thought to myself you know with no

1149
00:47:30,129 --> 00:47:27,799
offense to Lee that he clicked on the

1150
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:30,139
wrong link he went and again that that's

1151
00:47:34,629 --> 00:47:31,609
kind of why I brought up the manual

1152
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,639
versus instruction and the change it is

1153
00:47:37,839 --> 00:47:36,319
really confusing so I thought well maybe

1154
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:37,849
he just stumbled on the wrong number or

1155
00:47:41,739 --> 00:47:39,649
the wrong instruction or what you know

1156
00:47:43,179 --> 00:47:41,749
whatever so I said Lee I'll be home in a

1157
00:47:45,339 --> 00:47:43,189
couple hours and said let me get to a

1158
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:45,349
computer and I'll you know we'll sort

1159
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:46,729
this out I didn't really think much of

1160
00:47:54,099 --> 00:47:50,209
it I got home and sure enough they

1161
00:47:56,709 --> 00:47:54,109
rewrote the entire manual chapter 5 was

1162
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:56,719
omitted completely gone rewritten to

1163
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,119
something to do with hurricanes it was

1164
00:48:05,889 --> 00:48:02,559
Air Force manual 10 - 2 0 6 and the

1165
00:48:09,399 --> 00:48:05,899
publication date for this version was

1166
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:09,409
approximately 48 hours after Lee

1167
00:48:15,129 --> 00:48:13,249
Spiegel's phone call Cabaye so what are

1168
00:48:17,649 --> 00:48:15,139
the odds yeah

1169
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:17,659
48 out about 48 hours what are the odds

1170
00:48:22,210 --> 00:48:20,089
that they would you know just by

1171
00:48:23,890 --> 00:48:22,220
coincidence change it well that's there

1172
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:23,900
explanation they called Li back the next

1173
00:48:29,230 --> 00:48:26,570
week apparently said oh yeah that was

1174
00:48:33,130 --> 00:48:29,240
just an old manual we went ahead and

1175
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:33,140
changed it and so what I did was I file

1176
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:34,400
make it quick

1177
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:36,770
to finish the story but I filed a FOIA

1178
00:48:40,330 --> 00:48:39,260
request for all documents relating to

1179
00:48:42,730 --> 00:48:40,340
the change

1180
00:48:46,030 --> 00:48:42,740
yeah because again I mean you learned

1181
00:48:48,460 --> 00:48:46,040
some really cool tricks with using the

1182
00:48:51,250 --> 00:48:48,470
FOIA so when I what I went after what

1183
00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:51,260
are called changelog so anytime a manual

1184
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:53,720
or guideline or instruction or whatever

1185
00:48:58,810 --> 00:48:56,690
has changed those changes are documented

1186
00:49:00,730 --> 00:48:58,820
in a change log so I went after the

1187
00:49:03,550 --> 00:49:00,740
change log but also any notes pertaining

1188
00:49:06,220 --> 00:49:03,560
to it I got him back and it was like

1189
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:06,230
riddled with you know spelling and

1190
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:08,090
grammatical errors now I am NOT a

1191
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:11,330
grammar nazi but the reason why I point

1192
00:49:17,890 --> 00:49:14,450
those things out is the speed and the

1193
00:49:20,020 --> 00:49:17,900
hastiness of making that change right I

1194
00:49:22,450 --> 00:49:20,030
think what happened was is they went oh

1195
00:49:26,290 --> 00:49:22,460
you know Huffington Post is gonna

1196
00:49:29,170 --> 00:49:26,300
profile this what let's cover it up you

1197
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:29,180
know and and so they did and hastily

1198
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:31,970
they went in and and and and removed the

1199
00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:35,089
chapter and so you know now what I tried

1200
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:37,849
to do is is trace the lineage from when

1201
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:40,310
I discovered it in 2000 through 2008

1202
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,530
through the change showed all of the

1203
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:44,480
multiple revisions I have all the change

1204
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,630
logs and you can see I mean if in my

1205
00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:49,760
opinion if that's not a blatant attempt

1206
00:49:54,310 --> 00:49:52,220
at a cover-up I'm not really sure what

1207
00:49:56,290 --> 00:49:54,320
it is and and the reason why I've

1208
00:49:59,079 --> 00:49:56,300
punched the the multiple times of

1209
00:50:01,210 --> 00:49:59,089
changes is that would be they're out if

1210
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:01,220
they had never touched that document

1211
00:50:06,970 --> 00:50:04,760
from 2000 to 2008 when they changed it I

1212
00:50:09,820 --> 00:50:06,980
would say you know what maybe it was

1213
00:50:12,190 --> 00:50:09,830
just a forgotten publication who knows

1214
00:50:14,170 --> 00:50:12,200
when it really started and UFO is just

1215
00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:14,180
kind of remained but they didn't care no

1216
00:50:20,109 --> 00:50:17,300
it remained updated and frequently

1217
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:20,119
changed up until UFOs were gonna be

1218
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:23,599
profiled and then poof it's gone so to

1219
00:50:28,359 --> 00:50:26,000
me that that was an amazing not to be

1220
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:28,369
long-winded so sorry about that but it

1221
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:31,490
was it was just a very cool it was just

1222
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:33,530
a very cool story to kind of show the

1223
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:35,410
lengths that they will go to and

1224
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:38,319
to me that that's beyond blatant I mean

1225
00:50:42,180 --> 00:50:39,760
you can't get any more cut-and-dry than

1226
00:50:44,279 --> 00:50:42,190
that no no it speaks volumes with what

1227
00:50:45,930 --> 00:50:44,289
you know their actions spoke volumes

1228
00:50:47,549 --> 00:50:45,940
when it comes to this you know they

1229
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,559
thought they were being sneaky and no

1230
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:48,880
one would ever notice but there's not

1231
00:50:53,069 --> 00:50:50,770
people like they don't think there's

1232
00:50:55,410 --> 00:50:53,079
people out there like you or even lease

1233
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:55,420
people looking into these stuffs yeah

1234
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:57,490
yeah it's so glaring it's almost

1235
00:51:02,730 --> 00:51:00,160
ridiculous but I love that story I had

1236
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:02,740
to have utility nope I remember hearing

1237
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:03,970
it one night I was walking home from

1238
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:06,640
work and I circled my block like 10

1239
00:51:11,069 --> 00:51:09,250
times just cuz I was like so like it's

1240
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:11,079
wrong I'm like oh my god wait what what

1241
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,380
so thank you thank you for sure it's a

1242
00:51:20,670 --> 00:51:16,480
long winded though that you can circle

1243
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:20,680
the block 10 times not I know I'm long

1244
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:23,020
long window no no I love it I love

1245
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:24,609
hearing about this stuff because you

1246
00:51:30,089 --> 00:51:27,839
know documents can be so dry and

1247
00:51:31,799 --> 00:51:30,099
statistics and all this stuff but no you

1248
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:31,809
do a good job of making it very

1249
00:51:36,299 --> 00:51:34,690
accessible to us because it goes over a

1250
00:51:38,609 --> 00:51:36,309
lot of people's heads and that's what

1251
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:38,619
they want they want you to get so

1252
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:41,760
entrenched in you know a 500-page report

1253
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:44,650
who's gonna take the time to to go

1254
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:45,970
through something like that you look at

1255
00:51:50,430 --> 00:51:47,890
that last Roswell one it's like 400

1256
00:51:52,019 --> 00:51:50,440
pages long no one's gonna like go

1257
00:51:53,309 --> 00:51:52,029
through that entire thing bag or you got

1258
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:53,319
to be kidding me but they do it on

1259
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:54,160
purpose

1260
00:51:57,599 --> 00:51:56,079
yeah Dave I think that there's something

1261
00:52:00,120 --> 00:51:57,609
it's a great point I think there's

1262
00:52:01,799 --> 00:52:00,130
something to be said that part of the

1263
00:52:03,210 --> 00:52:01,809
government that part of the cover-up and

1264
00:52:05,370 --> 00:52:03,220
we see this with the the JFK

1265
00:52:08,730 --> 00:52:05,380
assassination documents and and quite a

1266
00:52:11,130 --> 00:52:08,740
few other things as well drown the

1267
00:52:13,890 --> 00:52:11,140
public in information so instead of

1268
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:13,900
keeping it from them just drown them in

1269
00:52:19,410 --> 00:52:16,140
it and with the JFK assassination

1270
00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:19,420
documents as a prime example hundreds of

1271
00:52:23,730 --> 00:52:21,700
thousands of documents were dumped from

1272
00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:23,740
the National Archives and it's like

1273
00:52:27,059 --> 00:52:25,150
you're right who will go through it now

1274
00:52:28,980 --> 00:52:27,069
as the years go on of course we'll all

1275
00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:28,990
be going through it because we're

1276
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:30,670
interested in it but there is something

1277
00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:32,920
to be said that you when you dump a

1278
00:52:37,799 --> 00:52:33,880
hundred two hundred three hundred

1279
00:52:39,809 --> 00:52:37,809
thousand documents onto the public the

1280
00:52:43,170 --> 00:52:39,819
Washington Post is not gonna do an

1281
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:43,180
in-depth exposé on those documents in a

1282
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:45,490
day you know and I think that that's

1283
00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:47,680
part of and like really think to the big

1284
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:48,760
picture

1285
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,090
that they can't do it that quick so if

1286
00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:54,400
they do it at all it's you know a month

1287
00:52:58,650 --> 00:52:56,710
or two later to do it right anyway a

1288
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,660
month or two later to sift through all

1289
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:00,880
that and write a cohesive article at

1290
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:03,370
that point the news cycle on that

1291
00:53:07,110 --> 00:53:05,530
particular topic is done now will you

1292
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:07,120
and I read an article like that yeah

1293
00:53:10,110 --> 00:53:08,290
we'll eat it all up

1294
00:53:12,270 --> 00:53:10,120
but sadly with the general public

1295
00:53:13,950 --> 00:53:12,280
they're very focused on what is

1296
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:13,960
happening today

1297
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:16,330
not necessarily what happened yesterday

1298
00:53:22,650 --> 00:53:20,710
so when you're past that news cycle you

1299
00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:22,660
have a fraction of a fraction of those

1300
00:53:27,630 --> 00:53:25,660
still interested and and we see it with

1301
00:53:30,180 --> 00:53:27,640
I mean again I'm going off on a tangent

1302
00:53:32,670 --> 00:53:30,190
here but we see it throughout and that's

1303
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:32,680
why for those who may not have ever

1304
00:53:38,190 --> 00:53:35,050
noticed that's why you see document

1305
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:38,200
dumps on a Friday night or a holiday

1306
00:53:43,770 --> 00:53:40,810
weekend when when did the Muller report

1307
00:53:46,650 --> 00:53:43,780
come out on a holiday weekend Houston a

1308
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:46,660
you know eat so you look at the strategy

1309
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,230
behind that it came out I believe it was

1310
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:52,720
what Thursday but Friday was a holiday

1311
00:53:58,680 --> 00:53:55,690
with Good Friday holiday from for most

1312
00:54:00,690 --> 00:53:58,690
places anyway and so when they dumped

1313
00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:00,700
those things in an evening on a Friday

1314
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:03,670
evening or on a holiday weekend as silly

1315
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:05,170
as it sounds because you and I would

1316
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:06,940
probably be still be interested on that

1317
00:54:11,610 --> 00:54:09,610
Monday the majority of the general

1318
00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:11,620
public would not be the news cycle is

1319
00:54:16,530 --> 00:54:14,380
over there's a whole new world you know

1320
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:16,540
for the news the news men and the news

1321
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:18,910
women on that Monday and so all of a

1322
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:21,490
sudden it's not quite as newsworthy so

1323
00:54:25,830 --> 00:54:23,410
all of those you know all of those

1324
00:54:27,390 --> 00:54:25,840
tactics definitely play a role in

1325
00:54:30,210 --> 00:54:27,400
cover-ups and for me it's it's just a

1326
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:30,220
fascinating psychology behind it all

1327
00:54:34,140 --> 00:54:32,050
so we're wrapping up with the book John

1328
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:34,150
what's what's kind of the biggest thing

1329
00:54:37,950 --> 00:54:36,250
you learned by putting the book together

1330
00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:37,960
and what do you hope people will walk

1331
00:54:42,810 --> 00:54:40,750
away with after reading it the biggest

1332
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:42,820
biggest thing I learned I have more

1333
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:45,430
stuff than I thought

1334
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:48,400
I joking aside I putting the book

1335
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:50,490
together made me really dig back into

1336
00:54:53,970 --> 00:54:52,510
documents that although I had them

1337
00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:53,980
online and they've been online for

1338
00:54:59,070 --> 00:54:57,220
twenty years I haven't seen them in 20

1339
00:55:02,340 --> 00:54:59,080
years you know a lot of times I forget

1340
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:02,350
what I have so for me the biggest

1341
00:55:08,550 --> 00:55:05,440
take away was not only that buddy but

1342
00:55:11,340 --> 00:55:08,560
but the amount of evidence to prove a

1343
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:11,350
coverup and conspiracy and again using

1344
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:13,090
those pieces of the puzzle and putting

1345
00:55:17,370 --> 00:55:15,730
them all together in book form for me

1346
00:55:19,410 --> 00:55:17,380
was a heck of a lot different than

1347
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:19,420
running an archive you know I mean that

1348
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:21,730
I don't I don't just take a hundred page

1349
00:55:28,890 --> 00:55:24,250
document and then publish it online as a

1350
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:28,900
two-page you know editorial my job I

1351
00:55:33,150 --> 00:55:30,640
feel is different I don't claim to be a

1352
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:33,160
journalist I never have what I do is I

1353
00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:34,930
take that raw information and put it

1354
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:36,880
online for the journalists I feel like

1355
00:55:41,940 --> 00:55:39,520
more of an archivist role and a

1356
00:55:45,060 --> 00:55:41,950
researcher role making those tools

1357
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:45,070
available so to be able to take all of

1358
00:55:51,420 --> 00:55:48,400
those manok collectively tens of

1359
00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:51,430
thousands of pages from all the various

1360
00:55:58,410 --> 00:55:56,350
agencies and on UFOs that is and and

1361
00:56:01,410 --> 00:55:58,420
look at the most important pieces and

1362
00:56:03,150 --> 00:56:01,420
then tell a cohesive story it was a

1363
00:56:05,340 --> 00:56:03,160
challenge but it was something that

1364
00:56:06,750 --> 00:56:05,350
showed me there is more evidence than

1365
00:56:09,060 --> 00:56:06,760
even I thought and I've been preaching

1366
00:56:10,860 --> 00:56:09,070
about this for a long time but there is

1367
00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:10,870
more evidence than I thought

1368
00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:14,140
and so so that's what I took away from

1369
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:17,560
the book in regards to well I don't know

1370
00:56:21,690 --> 00:56:19,990
did you add did you ask me sorry if I'm

1371
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:21,700
making stuff up here do you ask what I

1372
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:25,260
want the general public to take away I

1373
00:56:34,110 --> 00:56:30,570
dreamt that or well I need more coffee

1374
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:34,120
so yeah so that's you know the personal

1375
00:56:38,250 --> 00:56:36,130
note for me when it comes to people

1376
00:56:40,830 --> 00:56:38,260
reading this I want people to challenge

1377
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:40,840
their beliefs you know and and I don't

1378
00:56:44,820 --> 00:56:42,610
necessarily put in my book like you're

1379
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:44,830
supposed to believe this is aliens no I

1380
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:46,930
do put forth that that sounds like the

1381
00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:48,850
most plausible explanation and why many

1382
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:50,980
of the other explanations don't make

1383
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:53,860
sense but it's not me it's not for me to

1384
00:57:01,050 --> 00:56:57,280
tell you how to think and so that's why

1385
00:57:04,350 --> 00:57:01,060
for fun and it's more of a token but I

1386
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:04,360
had minted a challenge coin for the

1387
00:57:09,870 --> 00:57:06,370
release of this book I only made 500 of

1388
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:09,880
them and it's a token for people to

1389
00:57:14,670 --> 00:57:12,610
challenge themselves if you're a firm

1390
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:14,680
believer in UFOs there's still a lot in

1391
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:16,090
this book that you'll get out of

1392
00:57:20,670 --> 00:57:19,090
if you're a skeptic about UFOs and you

1393
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:20,680
don't believe it at all I believe you'll

1394
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:22,450
truly get a lot out of this book if

1395
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:24,910
you're on the fence I believe that

1396
00:57:27,870 --> 00:57:26,050
you'll get a lot out of it

1397
00:57:30,090 --> 00:57:27,880
the reason why I say that is in each

1398
00:57:32,610 --> 00:57:30,100
level no matter what level you feel you

1399
00:57:35,370 --> 00:57:32,620
fit into that we have to challenge

1400
00:57:37,830 --> 00:57:35,380
ourselves oh should I be such a believer

1401
00:57:39,780 --> 00:57:37,840
should I be such a skeptic or should I

1402
00:57:40,980 --> 00:57:39,790
be in the middle there's enough evidence

1403
00:57:43,290 --> 00:57:40,990
here to throw me one way or the other

1404
00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:43,300
and that's what I mean by by challenging

1405
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:45,910
our beliefs and and so that's what I

1406
00:57:50,790 --> 00:57:47,650
want people to kind of take away from

1407
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:50,800
the book is that the tagline that ended

1408
00:57:56,970 --> 00:57:54,490
up on Amazon which I actually wasn't I I

1409
00:57:59,160 --> 00:57:56,980
wrote it but then I thought oh god is

1410
00:58:01,380 --> 00:57:59,170
this bad like well does this mean no one

1411
00:58:03,180 --> 00:58:01,390
will buy the book and the tagline says

1412
00:58:05,130 --> 00:58:03,190
the evidence in this book may not

1413
00:58:07,140 --> 00:58:05,140
ultimately give you the smoking gun you

1414
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,150
are looking for on your journey but I

1415
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:09,520
guarantee you it will give you a box of

1416
00:58:13,530 --> 00:58:11,890
bullets when you find it and I kind of

1417
00:58:15,630 --> 00:58:13,540
cringed when I read my own writing that

1418
00:58:18,060 --> 00:58:15,640
ended up on the you know top of Amazon

1419
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:18,070
and a couple other advertisements and

1420
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:20,710
stuff like does that convey that the

1421
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:24,010
book is you know bad I don't know but

1422
00:58:31,890 --> 00:58:27,610
but where I write that and what I would

1423
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:31,900
how I would address this to again how

1424
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:34,570
people how I intended people to walk

1425
00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:36,730
away after reading the book is that each

1426
00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:39,190
and every one of us you me your

1427
00:58:44,220 --> 00:58:41,740
listeners people that are listening to

1428
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:44,230
you for the first time the smoking gun

1429
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:47,680
for them for all of us is different so

1430
00:58:50,940 --> 00:58:49,210
you have a different smoking gun than I

1431
00:58:52,650 --> 00:58:50,950
do I have a different smoking gun than

1432
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:52,660
she does and so on and so forth and so

1433
00:58:58,590 --> 00:58:55,810
that's why I wrote that and said look

1434
00:59:00,480 --> 00:58:58,600
the smoking guns different for all of us

1435
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:00,490
but these are the pieces of the puzzle

1436
00:59:05,370 --> 00:59:02,530
these are the bullets for the gun so

1437
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:05,380
when you are convinced this is the

1438
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:07,510
evidence that you need to really drive

1439
00:59:13,260 --> 00:59:10,480
at home and that's that was my full

1440
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:13,270
intent is for people to walk away saying

1441
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:15,460
hey that evidence really is there

1442
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:18,160
anybody can get this information there

1443
00:59:22,380 --> 00:59:20,170
is nothing in the book that no-one

1444
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:22,390
cannot get under the the Freedom of

1445
00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:25,090
Information Act that you can go after

1446
00:59:29,010 --> 00:59:26,740
these records you can see it on an

1447
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:29,020
official level that the military and the

1448
00:59:33,210 --> 00:59:29,770
government

1449
00:59:35,220 --> 00:59:33,220
is is is lying there's no way around it

1450
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:35,230
so now we have to figure out why and

1451
00:59:39,810 --> 00:59:38,290
then and that's that's the intent with

1452
00:59:41,370 --> 00:59:39,820
the book the other part I had a lot of

1453
00:59:43,350 --> 00:59:41,380
fun with that I hope people can walk

1454
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:43,360
away with is what I did was I just

1455
00:59:48,780 --> 00:59:46,450
opposed science and proven history

1456
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:48,790
versus what the documents were saying

1457
00:59:54,510 --> 00:59:51,520
UFOs were capable of so what I did was I

1458
00:59:56,550 --> 00:59:54,520
was researching air speeds of world

1459
01:00:00,180 --> 00:59:56,560
records and you know what the the

1460
01:00:01,890 --> 01:00:00,190
various explains were doing these UFOs

1461
01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:01,900
on more than one occasion quite a few

1462
01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:05,140
actually were exhibiting technology that

1463
01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:09,340
was 10 15 20 plus years ahead of where

1464
01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:14,590
humans were radio contact the planet

1465
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:18,670
gauge er a radio.com and so when you

1466
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:20,770
look at that and again this isn't some

1467
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:22,180
guy saying I think it was going about

1468
01:00:26,820 --> 01:00:24,160
ten thousand miles an hour has nothing

1469
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:26,830
to do with that it what I relied on was

1470
01:00:35,460 --> 01:00:32,170
proven documentation on radar data and

1471
01:00:37,950 --> 01:00:35,470
stuff that was easily provable not

1472
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:37,960
someone's opinion and that's what I used

1473
01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:40,210
to then juxtapose with science and then

1474
01:00:44,970 --> 01:00:41,590
you start really telling an amazing

1475
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:44,980
story and you go wow that that was 20

1476
01:00:51,060 --> 01:00:47,910
years more advanced than the US military

1477
01:00:52,140 --> 01:00:51,070
document you know in the 1950s how is

1478
01:00:54,090 --> 01:00:52,150
that even possible

1479
01:00:57,540 --> 01:00:54,100
and yet the United States military has

1480
01:01:00,840 --> 01:00:57,550
that in their files and so using all of

1481
01:01:02,790 --> 01:01:00,850
those logical points on how to look at

1482
01:01:05,340 --> 01:01:02,800
this you can't help but think hey this

1483
01:01:08,070 --> 01:01:05,350
is a much more heavily advanced

1484
01:01:11,130 --> 01:01:08,080
civilization than our own right right

1485
01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:11,140
and I mean to what you always say to is

1486
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:13,600
the documents don't lie what's in the

1487
01:01:17,609 --> 01:01:15,790
documents might might not exactly be

1488
01:01:20,070 --> 01:01:17,619
truthful but the documents themselves

1489
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,080
don't lie and I've always I've always

1490
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:21,520
tried to keep that in mind when I'm

1491
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:24,160
going through this stuff but moving away

1492
01:01:30,060 --> 01:01:27,450
from the book a little bit John your

1493
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:30,070
your recent findings went to the Stars

1494
01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:31,570
Academy you put together the most

1495
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:34,720
extensive timeline of events with Louis

1496
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:37,210
Elizondo the eighth tip program and some

1497
01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:39,910
issues that have arisen so could you

1498
01:01:43,470 --> 01:01:42,070
maybe run us through your concerns what

1499
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,480
where's your head today on this

1500
01:01:47,609 --> 01:01:45,119
entire affair I know this is a very

1501
01:01:50,130 --> 01:01:47,619
controversial thing right now in the UFO

1502
01:01:52,050 --> 01:01:50,140
community at least said ya know in it

1503
01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:52,060
absolutely is it's not popular to go

1504
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:53,380
against the company line I'll be the

1505
01:02:00,060 --> 01:01:57,280
first to admit and you know I was I said

1506
01:02:00,660 --> 01:02:00,070
this the other day and and I'll say it

1507
01:02:03,330 --> 01:02:00,670
again

1508
01:02:06,540 --> 01:02:03,340
I truly believe this I am NOT in this

1509
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:06,550
field to be popular I'm in this field to

1510
01:02:11,790 --> 01:02:09,369
be accurate and I think that some people

1511
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:11,800
they don't quite understand that and the

1512
01:02:17,250 --> 01:02:14,410
fact that I'm going against the going

1513
01:02:19,710 --> 01:02:17,260
story of a tip which comes through to

1514
01:02:21,330 --> 01:02:19,720
the Stars Academy the fact that I just

1515
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:21,340
don't buy it hook line and sinker I

1516
01:02:25,620 --> 01:02:23,530
think bothers a few people but in the

1517
01:02:27,030 --> 01:02:25,630
same respect we have to ask very

1518
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:27,040
important questions

1519
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,450
now I separate my thoughts on to the

1520
01:02:36,359 --> 01:02:34,240
Stars Academy versus those thoughts on a

1521
01:02:39,060 --> 01:02:36,369
tip or the advanced aerospace threat

1522
01:02:40,410 --> 01:02:39,070
identification program which in layman's

1523
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:40,420
terms is the quote unquote secret

1524
01:02:47,099 --> 01:02:43,359
Pentagon UFO study that broke in

1525
01:02:49,980 --> 01:02:47,109
December of 2017 and so I kind of

1526
01:02:53,370 --> 01:02:49,990
separate those answers what I focused on

1527
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:53,380
in the time line was using everything

1528
01:03:00,359 --> 01:02:56,050
that mr. Lewis Elizondo has said

1529
01:03:02,849 --> 01:03:00,369
publicly on various lecture circuits now

1530
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:02,859
that he's done a couple lectures I've

1531
01:03:09,330 --> 01:03:05,770
dug up you know those statements and

1532
01:03:11,970 --> 01:03:09,340
news articles and so on and tried to put

1533
01:03:13,859 --> 01:03:11,980
it all on a timeline but what I also put

1534
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,869
on the timeline - and again just for

1535
01:03:17,540 --> 01:03:15,280
research purposes to try and make sense

1536
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:17,550
well what I also put on the timeline

1537
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:19,930
because I believe that we have to look

1538
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:22,720
at this are the other figures that are

1539
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:25,330
directly tied to the a tip program

1540
01:03:31,830 --> 01:03:29,170
primarily dr. hal putt-off who has also

1541
01:03:34,410 --> 01:03:31,840
lectured and then I also put on the

1542
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:34,420
timeline the media journalists that

1543
01:03:40,859 --> 01:03:38,770
worked directly with mr. Elizondo

1544
01:03:43,609 --> 01:03:40,869
dr. help cut off and to the Stars

1545
01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:43,619
Academy as a whole I did not include

1546
01:03:50,730 --> 01:03:47,470
anybody or anything that did not have a

1547
01:03:53,550 --> 01:03:50,740
direct connection to a tip or a direct

1548
01:03:56,070 --> 01:03:53,560
connection to the people of a tip so

1549
01:03:57,030 --> 01:03:56,080
again I used those big mainstream media

1550
01:03:59,580 --> 01:03:57,040
outlets

1551
01:04:03,270 --> 01:03:59,590
and the key figures I put it all on a

1552
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:03,280
time line and it is a mess so a lot of

1553
01:04:07,410 --> 01:04:05,530
the heat that was thrown my way from and

1554
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:07,420
it's a handful of people but it's a very

1555
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:10,810
loud handful the heat primarily comes

1556
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:12,610
with while Greenwald wants to believe

1557
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:14,290
that the government and the FOIA will

1558
01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:16,450
give him all the answers so he's

1559
01:04:22,170 --> 01:04:19,030
doubting to the Stars and a tip because

1560
01:04:24,300 --> 01:04:22,180
the government said it's not true so

1561
01:04:26,340 --> 01:04:24,310
what I did on the time line was actually

1562
01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:26,350
really not use the government at all

1563
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:30,160
like I only used the key players of a

1564
01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:33,610
tip there are select few exceptions I

1565
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:35,110
mean of course the government plays role

1566
01:04:40,770 --> 01:04:38,160
in the story so I do have the provable

1567
01:04:43,230 --> 01:04:40,780
government documents on the timeline and

1568
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:43,240
that connects back to the original

1569
01:04:49,170 --> 01:04:45,250
posting what's called a bid solicitation

1570
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:49,180
for OSAP which another acronym advanced

1571
01:04:54,060 --> 01:04:51,280
aerospace weapons system applications

1572
01:04:57,540 --> 01:04:54,070
program that's a mouthful but when they

1573
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:57,550
officially asked for bids and again put

1574
01:05:02,580 --> 01:04:59,440
put that on the timeline because that is

1575
01:05:05,250 --> 01:05:02,590
apparently the preak the going story is

1576
01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:05,260
the precursor name of what ultimately

1577
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:08,230
became a tip and so when you look at it

1578
01:05:14,430 --> 01:05:11,230
on a timeline I laugh because it is

1579
01:05:17,820 --> 01:05:14,440
laughable that there are multiple start

1580
01:05:20,490 --> 01:05:17,830
dates for when a tip came around going

1581
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:20,500
to the original New York Times story and

1582
01:05:25,790 --> 01:05:23,290
this is meant to be no offense to ralph

1583
01:05:29,580 --> 01:05:25,800
Blumenthal Helene Cooper or Leslie Kane

1584
01:05:31,590 --> 01:05:29,590
they said a tip started in 2007 while

1585
01:05:35,220 --> 01:05:31,600
that contradicts what mr. Elizondo has

1586
01:05:37,590 --> 01:05:35,230
gone on the record saying so the really

1587
01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:37,600
weird thing is that the media namely the

1588
01:05:42,990 --> 01:05:40,480
New York Times said that they saw a tip

1589
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,000
contracts to prove what they were

1590
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:45,520
reporting but they never showed them hmm

1591
01:05:50,340 --> 01:05:47,770
the problem is there were no a tip

1592
01:05:53,220 --> 01:05:50,350
contracts ever it was an awesome

1593
01:05:56,070 --> 01:05:53,230
contract they never actually mentioned

1594
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:56,080
that program names not classified so if

1595
01:05:59,820 --> 01:05:57,520
they did see contracts it would have a

1596
01:06:01,440 --> 01:05:59,830
different name now why is this important

1597
01:06:03,870 --> 01:06:01,450
because it sounds like god semantics who

1598
01:06:06,420 --> 01:06:03,880
cares in the interest of accuracy we

1599
01:06:10,770 --> 01:06:06,430
have to care we have to care when the

1600
01:06:13,460 --> 01:06:10,780
actual date was 2007 or 2008 or

1601
01:06:17,310 --> 01:06:13,470
2009 depends on who you want to believe

1602
01:06:20,430 --> 01:06:17,320
what you know what happened with this

1603
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:20,440
timeline and how did it go so awry so I

1604
01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:22,290
put it together and of course you know

1605
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:25,840
controversy surrounds it but it is 100%

1606
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:28,000
sourced top to bottom there's nothing in

1607
01:06:33,630 --> 01:06:30,640
there that I made up or fabricated or

1608
01:06:36,030 --> 01:06:33,640
can be refuted it is all the words of

1609
01:06:38,430 --> 01:06:36,040
again that the players that I've that

1610
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:38,440
I've named so when you look at it in

1611
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:40,210
that form and you see those

1612
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:43,930
discrepancies it's problematic to some

1613
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:45,970
it may be really tedious to some it's

1614
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:48,490
even boring and I agree with you on all

1615
01:06:54,210 --> 01:06:51,370
fronts but sadly in the in the interest

1616
01:06:57,540 --> 01:06:54,220
of accuracy in my opinion this topic is

1617
01:06:59,880 --> 01:06:57,550
just too important to blindly believe

1618
01:07:02,790 --> 01:06:59,890
somebody who's giving out false

1619
01:07:07,350 --> 01:07:02,800
information you can't have it both ways

1620
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:07,360
dr. putt-off directly contradicts mr.

1621
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:10,690
Lewis Elizondo and they work together

1622
01:07:17,130 --> 01:07:13,810
yeah yeah you know that that's a huge

1623
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:17,140
issue and again it's not like somebody

1624
01:07:20,610 --> 01:07:18,610
miss speaking or something like that

1625
01:07:22,020 --> 01:07:20,620
when you look at how they could because

1626
01:07:24,450 --> 01:07:22,030
I left all that out I tried to be

1627
01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:24,460
incredibly fair that if it seemed like

1628
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:26,080
maybe a because I do it too I probably

1629
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:28,450
did it in this program people the human

1630
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:30,880
brain is not capable of being perfect

1631
01:07:34,890 --> 01:07:33,130
yeah I don't claim to be you don't claim

1632
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:34,900
to be I don't think anybody should so I

1633
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,050
left out what I felt were you know

1634
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:40,000
explainable maybe a hiccup maybe a you

1635
01:07:45,450 --> 01:07:43,570
know just a brain spasm who knows but I

1636
01:07:48,060 --> 01:07:45,460
left those out what I did were the the

1637
01:07:50,670 --> 01:07:48,070
hard core facts that were being conveyed

1638
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:50,680
to the general public which includes you

1639
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:53,380
and me and giving quote-unquote answers

1640
01:07:59,370 --> 01:07:55,330
and behind-the-scenes look and yet

1641
01:08:01,260 --> 01:07:59,380
nothing coincides so for me that that we

1642
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:01,270
have to look at it it could there be a

1643
01:08:05,940 --> 01:08:03,730
easy explanations for all of it I've

1644
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:05,950
always been open to that I've never said

1645
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:08,650
otherwise and the attackers love to just

1646
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:11,920
say that I'm set in stone here no and in

1647
01:08:16,980 --> 01:08:15,010
fact I made an open letter to the stars

1648
01:08:19,769 --> 01:08:16,990
Academy about a year ago I forget the

1649
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:19,779
exact date but inviting them it was

1650
01:08:23,670 --> 01:08:21,310
after I kind of had some of these red

1651
01:08:24,510 --> 01:08:23,680
flags and was speaking publicly and I'll

1652
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,520
say now what I told

1653
01:08:29,730 --> 01:08:26,560
them in an open letter which I published

1654
01:08:31,410 --> 01:08:29,740
online it's not fair for me to quote

1655
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:31,420
unquote trash them which I don't feel

1656
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:34,960
I'm doing but it's no fair for me to say

1657
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:36,400
all this without their side of the story

1658
01:08:40,710 --> 01:08:37,810
and they refuse to talk to me

1659
01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:40,720
more than four months I was kind of

1660
01:08:46,410 --> 01:08:44,710
given the runaround by their PR agent no

1661
01:08:49,349 --> 01:08:46,420
complaint seemed very very sweet through

1662
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:49,359
email but that was that was it after

1663
01:08:53,940 --> 01:08:51,970
four months they're like nope no we

1664
01:08:55,579 --> 01:08:53,950
can't do he's not doing it mr. Luisi

1665
01:08:58,380 --> 01:08:55,589
elizondo's not doing any more interviews

1666
01:08:59,640 --> 01:08:58,390
we cannot secure an interview and and I

1667
01:09:01,019 --> 01:08:59,650
respected that because I thought well

1668
01:09:02,730 --> 01:09:01,029
maybe he just ran its course

1669
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:02,740
you know he'd he doesn't want to do any

1670
01:09:06,990 --> 01:09:04,930
more I respect that and like the next

1671
01:09:09,420 --> 01:09:07,000
week he was on some podcast yeah and

1672
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:09,430
it's like wait a minute I thought you

1673
01:09:14,849 --> 01:09:11,650
said you can't he's not doing anything I

1674
01:09:17,730 --> 01:09:14,859
see you just don't want to address these

1675
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:17,740
points and nothing on the timeline what

1676
01:09:23,130 --> 01:09:20,650
I would consider classified either so he

1677
01:09:28,019 --> 01:09:23,140
loves to hide behind that and I don't

1678
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:28,029
mean that disrespectfully but he admits

1679
01:09:32,670 --> 01:09:30,970
it and he says I'm under security oats

1680
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:32,680
and this and that so I can't tell you

1681
01:09:36,930 --> 01:09:34,000
and I support that I have no problem

1682
01:09:38,370 --> 01:09:36,940
with that but sadly I think he's hiding

1683
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:38,380
behind that a little too much I think

1684
01:09:41,099 --> 01:09:39,520
there's some things that people have

1685
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,109
asked him that are very important

1686
01:09:45,690 --> 01:09:43,120
questions that he goes security you know

1687
01:09:47,940 --> 01:09:45,700
I can't tell you security oaths and all

1688
01:09:50,970 --> 01:09:47,950
that I I just I don't I don't I don't

1689
01:09:52,230 --> 01:09:50,980
buy it and and and and the other person

1690
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:52,240
I did put on the timeline by the way it

1691
01:09:57,390 --> 01:09:54,970
was Senator Harry Reid so obviously he

1692
01:10:00,180 --> 01:09:57,400
was the you know the architect arguably

1693
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:00,190
with two other senators both of which

1694
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:03,760
have passed away sadly so we only have

1695
01:10:07,710 --> 01:10:05,710
his word to rely on so I put him on the

1696
01:10:11,100 --> 01:10:07,720
time line as well and that really screws

1697
01:10:14,190 --> 01:10:11,110
things up here let me say this about

1698
01:10:16,980 --> 01:10:14,200
Senator Reid with no no disrespect

1699
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:16,990
intended towards him but I do find it

1700
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:20,050
kind of laughable that you know when

1701
01:10:24,510 --> 01:10:21,970
when all of a sudden do politicians

1702
01:10:26,850 --> 01:10:24,520
start spewing gospel like in some of

1703
01:10:28,670 --> 01:10:26,860
these naysayers towards me being

1704
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:28,680
skeptical about this or asking questions

1705
01:10:33,540 --> 01:10:31,330
are like the first to just jump up while

1706
01:10:37,170 --> 01:10:33,550
a senator said it so it has to be true

1707
01:10:38,370 --> 01:10:37,180
well no not really man like I mean if

1708
01:10:41,790 --> 01:10:38,380
you look at politifact I

1709
01:10:43,649 --> 01:10:41,800
think read has a 45% lying rate or

1710
01:10:45,629 --> 01:10:43,659
something on what they you know what

1711
01:10:48,419 --> 01:10:45,639
they researched so like why all of a

1712
01:10:50,850 --> 01:10:48,429
sudden is that our golden boy of honesty

1713
01:10:53,100 --> 01:10:50,860
he could be being 100% truthful here I

1714
01:10:55,169 --> 01:10:53,110
have no idea and he is a very

1715
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:55,179
interesting role in all of this because

1716
01:10:59,129 --> 01:10:57,520
it is a former majority leader and he's

1717
01:11:01,410 --> 01:10:59,139
talking about that this was a UFO

1718
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:01,420
program the problem is and I'd love to

1719
01:11:06,450 --> 01:11:02,800
have somebody ask him this

1720
01:11:09,209 --> 01:11:06,460
nobody has I I would if I had the

1721
01:11:10,020 --> 01:11:09,219
opportunity somebody should ask him what

1722
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:10,030
do you think about the government

1723
01:11:14,729 --> 01:11:12,130
denying what you're talking about

1724
01:11:16,020 --> 01:11:14,739
mmm right I mean because they have I'm

1725
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:16,030
not saying that they're being truthful

1726
01:11:20,370 --> 01:11:18,250
they could be lying we just spent well

1727
01:11:22,770 --> 01:11:20,380
over an hour talking about government

1728
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:22,780
lies about UFOs so I'm totally open to

1729
01:11:27,419 --> 01:11:24,489
their lying right and the people that

1730
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:27,429
attack me on Twitter and again select

1731
01:11:33,629 --> 01:11:30,449
handful but noisy enough to be annoying

1732
01:11:35,340 --> 01:11:33,639
they never they never acknowledge the

1733
01:11:39,209 --> 01:11:35,350
fact that I'm totally open to this being

1734
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:39,219
a UFO program what I want to know is how

1735
01:11:43,890 --> 01:11:41,170
is mister Elizondo quote-unquote

1736
01:11:46,290 --> 01:11:43,900
approved to talk about it which is what

1737
01:11:48,090 --> 01:11:46,300
he has said and then all of a sudden he

1738
01:11:51,330 --> 01:11:48,100
starts talking about I go no it's not a

1739
01:11:52,379 --> 01:11:51,340
UFO program okay well wait a minute I

1740
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:52,389
thought you were approved to talk about

1741
01:11:55,950 --> 01:11:54,370
it and so there's a lot of unanswered

1742
01:11:57,780 --> 01:11:55,960
questions there if they change their

1743
01:11:59,340 --> 01:11:57,790
mind we should know about that but

1744
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,350
mister Elizondo doesn't quite address it

1745
01:12:04,379 --> 01:12:01,120
I'd love to see senator Reed do the same

1746
01:12:07,229 --> 01:12:04,389
because he's saying unidentified objects

1747
01:12:08,189 --> 01:12:07,239
and you know stuff like that so pretty

1748
01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:08,199
much alluding to this was a

1749
01:12:14,129 --> 01:12:10,960
quote-unquote UFO research program so

1750
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:14,139
that's great the next follow-up question

1751
01:12:18,890 --> 01:12:16,330
is why is the United States government

1752
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:18,900
going 100 percent against what you say

1753
01:12:23,010 --> 01:12:21,130
that's it that's it it's a simple

1754
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:23,020
straightforward question there's nothing

1755
01:12:27,689 --> 01:12:25,449
classified about that so I hope one day

1756
01:12:31,020 --> 01:12:27,699
either I have the opportunity to ask him

1757
01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:31,030
or somebody a journalist or somebody who

1758
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:32,560
gets lucky and sees them in a hotel

1759
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:36,250
lobby or or something says you know and

1760
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:38,050
be respectful if anybody does come

1761
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:39,400
across them I don't think it should be

1762
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:41,920
combative but that is a very important

1763
01:12:48,180 --> 01:12:46,090
question one thing which I don't know if

1764
01:12:51,339 --> 01:12:48,190
you even want to go down this route but

1765
01:12:54,629 --> 01:12:51,349
I inadvertently kind of reinforced

1766
01:12:58,030 --> 01:12:54,639
the idea that it is quite possible that

1767
01:13:01,149 --> 01:12:58,040
Bigelow Aerospace and ultimately bass

1768
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:01,159
which won the contract may have been

1769
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:02,810
kind of chosen before the bid

1770
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:04,880
solicitation went up I'm not making that

1771
01:13:11,229 --> 01:13:07,760
claim but but Senator Reid has addressed

1772
01:13:13,260 --> 01:13:11,239
that that allegation publicly about it

1773
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:13,270
being what they call a sweetheart deal

1774
01:13:18,250 --> 01:13:16,010
that you know I have never pushed that

1775
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:18,260
line although as an investigator I have

1776
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:20,810
to look at all angles and I have put

1777
01:13:26,530 --> 01:13:23,090
that on where Bigelow is a big donor to

1778
01:13:28,569 --> 01:13:26,540
Senator Reid and so you know you you

1779
01:13:31,419 --> 01:13:28,579
connect the lines Reid starts pushing

1780
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:31,429
for this program gets the funding in the

1781
01:13:35,050 --> 01:13:34,010
process of making this timeline I spoke

1782
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:35,060
directly with the Defense Intelligence

1783
01:13:40,990 --> 01:13:37,730
Agency at this point this is not refuted

1784
01:13:43,780 --> 01:13:41,000
by anyone but they said Bigelow

1785
01:13:46,750 --> 01:13:43,790
Aerospace was the single sole and only

1786
01:13:49,689 --> 01:13:46,760
bidder not a single corporation ever

1787
01:13:53,290 --> 01:13:49,699
tried to get the AH sap contract at all

1788
01:13:57,550 --> 01:13:53,300
ever now in in today's world even back

1789
01:13:59,680 --> 01:13:57,560
in 2008 when it was published I in this

1790
01:14:01,600 --> 01:13:59,690
cutthroat environment you would think

1791
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:01,610
that there would be a ton of people some

1792
01:14:04,689 --> 01:14:03,050
that weren't even qualified that would

1793
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:04,699
try and get a multimillion-dollar

1794
01:14:09,129 --> 01:14:07,250
contract right I mean that's just when

1795
01:14:12,069 --> 01:14:09,139
you put a job posting you don't get one

1796
01:14:13,330 --> 01:14:12,079
reply people want the job even people

1797
01:14:17,290 --> 01:14:13,340
that aren't qualified so you get

1798
01:14:20,709 --> 01:14:17,300
inundated by resumes and stuff like that

1799
01:14:22,450 --> 01:14:20,719
so it was a huge red flag for me and the

1800
01:14:24,879 --> 01:14:22,460
other thing that that has been reported

1801
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:24,889
and this again is not a slide in any

1802
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:27,290
journalist out there but it has been

1803
01:14:34,419 --> 01:14:31,010
reported that bass was created

1804
01:14:38,350 --> 01:14:34,429
specifically for the Asaf slash a tip

1805
01:14:41,020 --> 01:14:38,360
contract that sounds great until I went

1806
01:14:42,609 --> 01:14:41,030
to the Nevada Secretary of State and I

1807
01:14:46,450 --> 01:14:42,619
found out that bass was actually

1808
01:14:49,149 --> 01:14:46,460
registered in January of 2008 all SAP

1809
01:14:53,020 --> 01:14:49,159
was never publicly known until August of

1810
01:14:57,129 --> 01:14:53,030
2008 so how could he have I don't know

1811
01:14:59,649 --> 01:14:57,139
the gut feeling to create an LLC eight

1812
01:15:03,310 --> 01:14:59,659
months or so prior to actually winning

1813
01:15:04,979 --> 01:15:03,320
the contract that again was reported to

1814
01:15:07,979 --> 01:15:04,989
be created so

1815
01:15:10,379 --> 01:15:07,989
for that program that does not make

1816
01:15:12,239 --> 01:15:10,389
sense so is the reporting wrong quite

1817
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:12,249
possibly not trying to take a slide at

1818
01:15:16,529 --> 01:15:14,170
any journalist but it's possible that

1819
01:15:19,919 --> 01:15:16,539
they are mistaken I was there for

1820
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:19,929
knowledge well if you like if you look

1821
01:15:23,759 --> 01:15:22,239
at the New York Magazine interview this

1822
01:15:25,649 --> 01:15:23,769
is not on the timeline but just to throw

1823
01:15:28,739 --> 01:15:25,659
it out there for your listeners read

1824
01:15:30,179 --> 01:15:28,749
senator Harry Reid's interview with the

1825
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:30,189
New York Magazine and there was New York

1826
01:15:34,709 --> 01:15:32,050
Magazine and he talked about a

1827
01:15:37,979 --> 01:15:34,719
conversation with mr. Bigelow directly

1828
01:15:40,949 --> 01:15:37,989
about a year or so before they even

1829
01:15:42,929 --> 01:15:40,959
pushed for funding for what led to a tip

1830
01:15:45,569 --> 01:15:42,939
why would he be having that conversation

1831
01:15:47,939 --> 01:15:45,579
if this wasn't a sweetheart deal yeah so

1832
01:15:49,489 --> 01:15:47,949
and that's not me saying it so for the

1833
01:15:52,020 --> 01:15:49,499
hate mail that I'm about to receive

1834
01:15:54,359 --> 01:15:52,030
please no I did not say that Senator

1835
01:15:56,429 --> 01:15:54,369
Reid did so look in the New York

1836
01:15:58,199 --> 01:15:56,439
Magazine article and and pull that up

1837
01:16:00,899 --> 01:15:58,209
that he was having conversations prior

1838
01:16:02,219 --> 01:16:00,909
to it coming to fruition and then it

1839
01:16:04,739 --> 01:16:02,229
came to fruition then the Defense

1840
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:04,749
Intelligence Agency confirms there was

1841
01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:07,449
no other bidder so you know there's a

1842
01:16:11,609 --> 01:16:09,249
lot of stuff that just it doesn't it

1843
01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:11,619
doesn't jive now let's just say at the

1844
01:16:14,729 --> 01:16:12,760
end of the day it's a sweetheart deal

1845
01:16:16,890 --> 01:16:14,739
I'm not making the claim but as an

1846
01:16:19,020 --> 01:16:16,900
investigator haven't ruled it out let's

1847
01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:19,030
just say at the end of the day it is it

1848
01:16:24,929 --> 01:16:22,300
doesn't change anything but it does kind

1849
01:16:26,850 --> 01:16:24,939
of throw into question like everything

1850
01:16:29,819 --> 01:16:26,860
else yeah because then it throws into

1851
01:16:32,879 --> 01:16:29,829
question on senator Reid's push to

1852
01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:32,889
continue this research why well who got

1853
01:16:39,239 --> 01:16:36,400
the contract mm-hmm so if that research

1854
01:16:41,689 --> 01:16:39,249
continues and they fund it more most

1855
01:16:45,299 --> 01:16:41,699
likely that contract would go back to

1856
01:16:48,959 --> 01:16:45,309
Bigelow Aerospace exactly yeah in the

1857
01:16:51,509 --> 01:16:48,969
great state of Nevada so not to sound

1858
01:16:53,100 --> 01:16:51,519
like a conspiracy nut but all of that is

1859
01:16:55,799 --> 01:16:53,110
documented and even with that

1860
01:16:58,589 --> 01:16:55,809
hypothetical it all makes sense so you

1861
01:16:59,939 --> 01:16:58,599
know sometimes again it's it's it's not

1862
01:17:02,489 --> 01:16:59,949
about being popular it's about being

1863
01:17:03,839 --> 01:17:02,499
accurate and with research with

1864
01:17:06,060 --> 01:17:03,849
investigation got to look at all

1865
01:17:08,459 --> 01:17:06,070
possibilities and start ruling them out

1866
01:17:10,589 --> 01:17:08,469
as the evidence comes in I go back to

1867
01:17:12,660 --> 01:17:10,599
that cure for cancer right you approach

1868
01:17:14,399 --> 01:17:12,670
it in multiple different ways figure out

1869
01:17:17,129 --> 01:17:14,409
what works figure out what doesn't and

1870
01:17:18,779 --> 01:17:17,139
focus on what's left you know and and

1871
01:17:21,629 --> 01:17:18,789
that's that's what we have to

1872
01:17:25,500 --> 01:17:21,639
with UFOs a certain percentage of people

1873
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:25,510
out there those fans very devoted tts a

1874
01:17:30,959 --> 01:17:28,690
to the Stars has very devoted fans in

1875
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:30,969
some cases they want to fall to their

1876
01:17:34,890 --> 01:17:32,710
knees and go this is disclosure you know

1877
01:17:36,990 --> 01:17:34,900
mister Elizondo speaking gospel the

1878
01:17:38,580 --> 01:17:37,000
problem is that you have to ignore a lot

1879
01:17:41,370 --> 01:17:38,590
and that's the intent going back to the

1880
01:17:45,390 --> 01:17:41,380
timeline you have to ignore an awful lot

1881
01:17:47,939 --> 01:17:45,400
in order to believe mr. Elizondo you can

1882
01:17:50,339 --> 01:17:47,949
actually remove this this is I wish I

1883
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:50,349
had the know-how to do this

1884
01:17:54,450 --> 01:17:52,690
technologically to kind of like click a

1885
01:17:58,470 --> 01:17:54,460
button and have certain sources

1886
01:18:01,020 --> 01:17:58,480
disappear but anyway in this timeline

1887
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:01,030
which is all kind of static if you just

1888
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:03,250
look at mr. elizondo's own statements

1889
01:18:06,959 --> 01:18:04,690
and don't use anything else

1890
01:18:08,430 --> 01:18:06,969
don't use senator Reed don't use dr.

1891
01:18:10,799 --> 01:18:08,440
putt-off don't use the government don't

1892
01:18:13,830 --> 01:18:10,809
use anything he contradicts himself so

1893
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:13,840
if he can't get the story right how are

1894
01:18:18,450 --> 01:18:15,760
we supposed to believe that he has the

1895
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:18,460
story accurate you know like if he can't

1896
01:18:23,819 --> 01:18:20,650
even give the same date which there are

1897
01:18:24,990 --> 01:18:23,829
multiple date discrepancies why are we

1898
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:25,000
supposed to believe everything else

1899
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:27,610
I just I just don't don't understand it

1900
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:29,260
so there's no accusations with that

1901
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:31,090
long-winded way of addressing what you

1902
01:18:36,299 --> 01:18:33,250
asked me to I'm not making those

1903
01:18:38,220 --> 01:18:36,309
accusations but for me as a field as the

1904
01:18:39,930 --> 01:18:38,230
whole we need to address them and if

1905
01:18:42,839 --> 01:18:39,940
they have easy answers cool

1906
01:18:44,189 --> 01:18:42,849
I'm really okay with that I rather that

1907
01:18:45,689 --> 01:18:44,199
to be honest with you so we can move on

1908
01:18:48,959 --> 01:18:45,699
but until then

1909
01:18:51,390 --> 01:18:48,969
hey research is research and documents

1910
01:18:53,549 --> 01:18:51,400
or documents I mean that the the the

1911
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:53,559
documents and the statements by those

1912
01:18:57,089 --> 01:18:54,880
that I put on the timeline they all

1913
01:18:59,310 --> 01:18:57,099
speak for themselves literally well and

1914
01:19:02,069 --> 01:18:59,320
I'm glad you did it in timeline format

1915
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:02,079
because obviously dates mean everything

1916
01:19:06,149 --> 01:19:04,480
when it comes to all this and yeah it

1917
01:19:10,220 --> 01:19:06,159
falls apart the minute you start looking

1918
01:19:13,379 --> 01:19:10,230
at it and again I'm not saying I'm I'm a

1919
01:19:16,049 --> 01:19:13,389
to the star superfan or a man tight to

1920
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:16,059
the stars I think this is exciting it's

1921
01:19:21,870 --> 01:19:19,329
extremely exciting that UFOs are in the

1922
01:19:24,060 --> 01:19:21,880
mainstream news that they're covering it

1923
01:19:27,359 --> 01:19:24,070
but it's how they're covering it who's

1924
01:19:30,660 --> 01:19:27,369
doing it and how accurate it actually is

1925
01:19:31,730 --> 01:19:30,670
and that even connects to something that

1926
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:31,740
came about

1927
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:33,930
days ago John and you definitely

1928
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:36,000
responded to the news about the Navy and

1929
01:19:39,470 --> 01:19:37,530
that's and they were going to change

1930
01:19:41,390 --> 01:19:39,480
their protocol and reporting UFOs and

1931
01:19:45,260 --> 01:19:41,400
again you have people screaming

1932
01:19:47,930 --> 01:19:45,270
disclosure disclosure I had a problem

1933
01:19:50,420 --> 01:19:47,940
with that right off the pad because I

1934
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:50,430
mean of course military branches have

1935
01:19:54,020 --> 01:19:52,050
protocols when it comes to reporting

1936
01:19:56,660 --> 01:19:54,030
UFOs so why is this any different I

1937
01:19:58,430 --> 01:19:56,670
don't exactly know but um could you

1938
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:58,440
maybe tell us a little about what your

1939
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:00,480
thoughts are on all this and what you

1940
01:20:03,290 --> 01:20:02,610
discovered literally minutes before we

1941
01:20:05,780 --> 01:20:03,300
started

1942
01:20:08,150 --> 01:20:05,790
yeah and in fact I have another update

1943
01:20:11,060 --> 01:20:08,160
for you because the email came in so

1944
01:20:12,650 --> 01:20:11,070
yeah and the last week or so news broke

1945
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:12,660
that the Navy was gonna be updating

1946
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:16,770
their guidelines and the idea was that

1947
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:18,810
they were gonna be taking UFO reports

1948
01:20:22,790 --> 01:20:21,060
more seriously now here's where I kind

1949
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,800
of wrestle with just jumping aboard

1950
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:24,480
going oh thank god they're going back to

1951
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:27,090
reporting UFOs in that if you look at

1952
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:28,410
the official statement there's nothing

1953
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:31,290
about UFOs they call it unidentified

1954
01:20:36,410 --> 01:20:33,450
aircraft which is you know fine again

1955
01:20:39,260 --> 01:20:36,420
I'm not trying to be playing semantics

1956
01:20:42,350 --> 01:20:39,270
with everything but it is important

1957
01:20:44,300 --> 01:20:42,360
because the media is very known to make

1958
01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:44,310
flashy headlines out of things that

1959
01:20:49,970 --> 01:20:46,710
aren't necessarily accurate and so what

1960
01:20:52,730 --> 01:20:49,980
I did was I immediately contacted some

1961
01:20:54,890 --> 01:20:52,740
people over at the the Navy and tried to

1962
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:54,900
get number one the full actual statement

1963
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:57,570
because sometimes with news agencies

1964
01:21:02,990 --> 01:21:00,560
they don't they don't publish the entire

1965
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:03,000
statement so I don't know if this is

1966
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:04,800
like a three page statement a one

1967
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:07,290
paragraph statement one sentence so what

1968
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:08,880
I did was I kind of cobbled it together

1969
01:21:16,190 --> 01:21:14,490
from Politico and Washington Post and I

1970
01:21:19,700 --> 01:21:16,200
was I was happy to see that it actually

1971
01:21:22,270 --> 01:21:19,710
was the whole statement because two days

1972
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:22,280
after the story broke on the 26th I

1973
01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:24,930
received confirmation from the Navy of

1974
01:21:30,860 --> 01:21:28,260
the statement but something stuck out in

1975
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:30,870
the email they said it was updated so I

1976
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:32,010
thought well that's weird it looks the

1977
01:21:36,590 --> 01:21:34,290
same took me a couple minutes and went

1978
01:21:39,620 --> 01:21:36,600
line for line word for word there was

1979
01:21:42,890 --> 01:21:39,630
only one single line that was changed

1980
01:21:45,290 --> 01:21:42,900
and that was what had been reported days

1981
01:21:48,290 --> 01:21:45,300
prior as a draft

1982
01:21:50,299 --> 01:21:48,300
that they were drafting these new guys

1983
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:50,309
what they called guidelines what the

1984
01:21:59,270 --> 01:21:54,900
media called guidelines that was changed

1985
01:22:01,580 --> 01:21:59,280
that line that read a new message to the

1986
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:01,590
fleet that will detail the steps were

1987
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:06,090
reporting it is in draft okay that

1988
01:22:11,569 --> 01:22:08,449
changed to a message to the fleet

1989
01:22:14,419 --> 01:22:11,579
details the steps for reporting each

1990
01:22:16,939 --> 01:22:14,429
incident the reason why that's important

1991
01:22:20,660 --> 01:22:16,949
is that means it's no longer in draft

1992
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:20,670
it's no longer an idea or a concept it

1993
01:22:26,660 --> 01:22:23,130
appears to be implemented it's happening

1994
01:22:29,089 --> 01:22:26,670
Wow it's happening now what's happening

1995
01:22:31,819 --> 01:22:29,099
here's the update that as we were

1996
01:22:35,089 --> 01:22:31,829
recording I got an answer to the message

1997
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:35,099
of trying to get what went out to the

1998
01:22:41,870 --> 01:22:38,639
fleet okay this was at my with my

1999
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:41,880
contact in DC with the Navy on my

2000
01:22:47,149 --> 01:22:44,250
website I do have the actual email as a

2001
01:22:51,140 --> 01:22:47,159
courtesy I did blur their information

2002
01:22:53,450 --> 01:22:51,150
however it is credited to somebody from

2003
01:22:55,939 --> 01:22:53,460
the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for

2004
01:22:58,520 --> 01:22:55,949
information warfare so his name is

2005
01:23:00,919 --> 01:22:58,530
Joseph grata sure since they wanted me

2006
01:23:03,140 --> 01:23:00,929
to credit him I blurred the other

2007
01:23:05,870 --> 01:23:03,150
information of the personnel that I

2008
01:23:07,459 --> 01:23:05,880
talked to you know just in case

2009
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:07,469
anybody's wondering like why I'm hiding

2010
01:23:12,530 --> 01:23:09,690
something it's a courtesy I don't

2011
01:23:13,819 --> 01:23:12,540
publish those types of contacts that are

2012
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:13,829
irrelevant to the story just because I

2013
01:23:18,770 --> 01:23:15,090
don't want them to get inundated with

2014
01:23:20,899 --> 01:23:18,780
doing their job yeah exactly so but they

2015
01:23:22,970 --> 01:23:20,909
did want the credit to Joseph grata sure

2016
01:23:24,979 --> 01:23:22,980
but that being said they will not

2017
01:23:27,169 --> 01:23:24,989
release the message they said we are

2018
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:27,179
unable to share the message with you due

2019
01:23:32,089 --> 01:23:29,489
to the operational and aircraft specific

2020
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:32,099
nature of these guidelines security

2021
01:23:38,209 --> 01:23:34,530
considerations preclude their disclosure

2022
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:38,219
and they sign the message so that's the

2023
01:23:43,819 --> 01:23:40,170
that's the update that came in

2024
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:43,829
let me see just minutes ago so I really

2025
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:46,530
wanted to try and get that now there are

2026
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:48,690
other avenues for me to get that which I

2027
01:23:54,350 --> 01:23:52,770
have already done so obviously now we're

2028
01:23:55,990 --> 01:23:54,360
getting into Freedom of Information Act

2029
01:23:58,670 --> 01:23:56,000
territory which is going to take time

2030
01:23:59,990 --> 01:23:58,680
since public affairs contact

2031
01:24:03,110 --> 01:24:00,000
and stuff like that will not release it

2032
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:03,120
at least not yet as as you and I are

2033
01:24:07,580 --> 01:24:05,280
chatting right now they have not

2034
01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:07,590
released it and obviously denied me

2035
01:24:13,070 --> 01:24:09,900
directly but from what I can tell as you

2036
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:13,080
and I are talking depending upon when

2037
01:24:15,770 --> 01:24:14,580
people are actually listening is a

2038
01:24:17,780 --> 01:24:15,780
little different story but as we're

2039
01:24:19,070 --> 01:24:17,790
talking nobody has reported that it's

2040
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:19,080
out of draft

2041
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:21,090
and I've searched all the headlines

2042
01:24:25,490 --> 01:24:23,520
everything is in reference to a draft

2043
01:24:27,950 --> 01:24:25,500
and that is important because there are

2044
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:27,960
military protocols regulations manuals

2045
01:24:33,710 --> 01:24:30,960
instructions you name it that will

2046
01:24:36,230 --> 01:24:33,720
remain a draft for quite some time and

2047
01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:36,240
I'll be honest with you I was fearing

2048
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:38,880
that without saying it publicly but I

2049
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:40,650
did fear that this thing would just stay

2050
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:42,930
in draft mode for you know five years

2051
01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:45,810
and then what happens news cycles over

2052
01:24:50,330 --> 01:24:48,510
interest level goes down nobody cares

2053
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:50,340
anymore so it just kind of dies on the

2054
01:24:56,210 --> 01:24:53,730
vine but it's pretty encouraging to see

2055
01:25:00,460 --> 01:24:56,220
that that that that statement was

2056
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:00,470
changed and that they seemingly have

2057
01:25:06,140 --> 01:25:03,090
implemented whatever guideline this is

2058
01:25:08,450 --> 01:25:06,150
so still a lot to the story here there's

2059
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:08,460
still a lot to unfold but at least we

2060
01:25:14,030 --> 01:25:11,010
know part of it has unfolded even more

2061
01:25:16,670 --> 01:25:14,040
since the original reporting by Politico

2062
01:25:19,130 --> 01:25:16,680
right from Politico and I gotta ask you

2063
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:19,140
John in your personal opinion I mean Tom

2064
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:21,930
DeLonge up to the stars did take credit

2065
01:25:28,130 --> 01:25:25,440
for this do do you think that they had

2066
01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:28,140
anything to do with this I mean it's

2067
01:25:34,010 --> 01:25:31,470
been publicly announced that yeah if

2068
01:25:36,770 --> 01:25:34,020
they did for me it's it's kind of a

2069
01:25:38,810 --> 01:25:36,780
capital I F if they did then kudos to

2070
01:25:41,390 --> 01:25:38,820
them I will be the first to say thank

2071
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:41,400
you I have given them publicly and I'll

2072
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:42,960
say it again kudos for bringing the a

2073
01:25:48,260 --> 01:25:46,170
tip story out no matter what it is I

2074
01:25:50,540 --> 01:25:48,270
think it's just a cool thing to know

2075
01:25:52,220 --> 01:25:50,550
about so I've always given them kudos

2076
01:25:55,820 --> 01:25:52,230
for that and if they did play a role in

2077
01:25:58,940 --> 01:25:55,830
this great I struggle with just

2078
01:26:01,190 --> 01:25:58,950
believing that on the surface anyway

2079
01:26:04,010 --> 01:26:01,200
because as we're recording this they're

2080
01:26:06,620 --> 01:26:04,020
even Politico unless I misread something

2081
01:26:08,690 --> 01:26:06,630
didn't say this is all thanks to to the

2082
01:26:10,690 --> 01:26:08,700
Stars Academy yeah they were saying that

2083
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:10,700
this is due to an increasing number of

2084
01:26:15,140 --> 01:26:12,570
incidents

2085
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:15,150
now is that because to the stars Academy

2086
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:17,760
brought that to their attention I'll be

2087
01:26:23,290 --> 01:26:19,489
honest with you I would doubt that on

2088
01:26:26,510 --> 01:26:23,300
for any private level public sector

2089
01:26:28,660 --> 01:26:26,520
corporation taking credit for bringing

2090
01:26:31,790 --> 01:26:28,670
something to a military intelligences

2091
01:26:34,370 --> 01:26:31,800
you know of the forefront of their

2092
01:26:36,050 --> 01:26:34,380
knowledge so III have doubts but not

2093
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:36,060
because it's TSA I just have doubts

2094
01:26:40,220 --> 01:26:38,310
because that would you know circumvent

2095
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:40,230
every Intelligence Agency military

2096
01:26:44,510 --> 01:26:41,850
branch and so on that they just don't

2097
01:26:46,370 --> 01:26:44,520
know and that that they're gonna take

2098
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:46,380
credit for saying hey look these pilots

2099
01:26:51,229 --> 01:26:48,690
are seeing things is is that possibility

2100
01:26:53,210 --> 01:26:51,239
absolutely and again I will I will be

2101
01:26:57,470 --> 01:26:53,220
more than happy to give kudos but I I

2102
01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:57,480
think that it's fairly telling that mr.

2103
01:27:00,920 --> 01:26:59,280
melon Christopher melon was interviewed

2104
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:00,930
mr. Lewis Elizondo was interviewed for

2105
01:27:06,650 --> 01:27:04,050
Politico and again please correct me if

2106
01:27:09,950 --> 01:27:06,660
I am wrong but I do not recall anywhere

2107
01:27:13,310 --> 01:27:09,960
in that saying to the stars Academy was

2108
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:13,320
a responsible for this so we're you know

2109
01:27:16,700 --> 01:27:14,970
are we gonna doubt the reporting of

2110
01:27:20,030 --> 01:27:16,710
Politico or are we gonna doubt Tom

2111
01:27:22,460 --> 01:27:20,040
DeLong's Instagram post you know we can

2112
01:27:24,050 --> 01:27:22,470
choose and argue that one but at this

2113
01:27:26,180 --> 01:27:24,060
point I have my reservations that they

2114
01:27:28,130 --> 01:27:26,190
were directly involved again I'm with

2115
01:27:29,830 --> 01:27:28,140
you I'm still on the fence it is

2116
01:27:33,860 --> 01:27:29,840
interesting that you know the most vocal

2117
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:33,870
within to the stars and even what Louis

2118
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:35,970
Elizondo is telling us was one of the

2119
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:38,489
bigger cases investigated with a tip is

2120
01:27:45,140 --> 01:27:41,489
flavors encounter the nimitz encounter

2121
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:45,150
yeah having been navy maybe that had

2122
01:27:48,260 --> 01:27:46,710
something to do with this that the Navy

2123
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:48,270
was the first military branch to

2124
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:50,250
announce this are we gonna see the Air

2125
01:27:55,190 --> 01:27:52,650
Force coming out with new protocol or

2126
01:27:57,140 --> 01:27:55,200
the army like I wonder how far this is

2127
01:27:58,970 --> 01:27:57,150
gonna go and what sort of trickle effect

2128
01:28:01,550 --> 01:27:58,980
it's gonna have or if it's just gonna

2129
01:28:02,540 --> 01:28:01,560
die in the water you know yeah that's

2130
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:02,550
right I mean well

2131
01:28:05,570 --> 01:28:04,410
pardon the pun that was good I see what

2132
01:28:09,530 --> 01:28:05,580
you did there right I didn't mean me

2133
01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:09,540
didn't you though I swear to god no I I

2134
01:28:14,630 --> 01:28:12,360
I've always wanted to be opt an optimist

2135
01:28:16,490 --> 01:28:14,640
when it comes to this I know I got a lot

2136
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:16,500
of heat for being skeptical about the a

2137
01:28:21,170 --> 01:28:19,110
tip thing I you know I want this to be

2138
01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:21,180
true and for your listeners that are

2139
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:22,560
curious what I did was I actually dug

2140
01:28:26,300 --> 01:28:25,290
into the phrasing of that statement that

2141
01:28:27,710 --> 01:28:26,310
I just referenced so be

2142
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:27,720
on the breaking news that it's no longer

2143
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:29,850
in draft although they didn't say UFOs

2144
01:28:33,260 --> 01:28:31,890
they said unidentified aircraft that

2145
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:33,270
made me cringe a little bit because that

2146
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:35,850
is an out for a military agency to say

2147
01:28:40,670 --> 01:28:38,210
well you know that's an over embellished

2148
01:28:42,230 --> 01:28:40,680
headline we're just interested in the

2149
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:42,240
drones that are out there that people

2150
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:44,400
are flying and this and that I mean you

2151
01:28:48,620 --> 01:28:45,810
know again looking for those outs

2152
01:28:52,220 --> 01:28:48,630
looking for skeptical responses to

2153
01:28:54,950 --> 01:28:52,230
something so I dug deep into various UFO

2154
01:28:56,690 --> 01:28:54,960
documents and I've you know found that

2155
01:28:59,990 --> 01:28:56,700
that phrasing actually connects to

2156
01:29:02,780 --> 01:29:00,000
flying saucers and UFOs going back at

2157
01:29:05,390 --> 01:29:02,790
least 66 years so it was kind of nice to

2158
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:05,400
see that there is a lineage to the

2159
01:29:11,420 --> 01:29:09,570
phrasing but again to kind of paraphrase

2160
01:29:13,940 --> 01:29:11,430
that article I mean I went into

2161
01:29:16,990 --> 01:29:13,950
historical documents but even United

2162
01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:17,000
States Air Force regulations outlining a

2163
01:29:22,910 --> 01:29:20,910
VA ssin safety in relation to reporting

2164
01:29:24,650 --> 01:29:22,920
and investigating unidentified aircraft

2165
01:29:26,510 --> 01:29:24,660
so the Air Force took a lot of heat in

2166
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:26,520
the last couple days or so since the

2167
01:29:30,380 --> 01:29:28,410
story broke that they're behind the

2168
01:29:32,060 --> 01:29:30,390
times and this and that so what I did

2169
01:29:36,260 --> 01:29:32,070
was actually brought out a lot of the

2170
01:29:38,090 --> 01:29:36,270
Air Force instructions not 10-2 0-6 that

2171
01:29:39,470 --> 01:29:38,100
we were talking about earlier but but

2172
01:29:41,090 --> 01:29:39,480
other ones that actually talked about

2173
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:41,100
unidentified aircraft there are still on

2174
01:29:48,970 --> 01:29:45,120
the books today that are dated 2015-2016

2175
01:29:51,860 --> 01:29:48,980
there's even a FAA diagram on how to

2176
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:51,870
intercept a quote-unquote unidentified

2177
01:29:58,130 --> 01:29:54,420
aircraft and I even dug up an official

2178
01:29:58,910 --> 01:29:58,140
definition of unidentified aircraft by

2179
01:30:01,790 --> 01:29:58,920
the FAA

2180
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:01,800
after what was a UFO it was quickly

2181
01:30:06,020 --> 01:30:04,290
identified thereafter but a UFO had

2182
01:30:07,820 --> 01:30:06,030
encroached on the White House airspace

2183
01:30:10,940 --> 01:30:07,830
now again it ended up being a small

2184
01:30:12,230 --> 01:30:10,950
commercial plane but my whole point is

2185
01:30:14,740 --> 01:30:12,240
is that it was a quote-unquote

2186
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:14,750
unidentified aircraft at the time and

2187
01:30:21,440 --> 01:30:18,090
the director of the deputy administrator

2188
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:21,450
I should say of the FAA had done a press

2189
01:30:27,170 --> 01:30:24,810
conference and he died in 2005 and he

2190
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:27,180
directly addressed unidentified aircraft

2191
01:30:33,590 --> 01:30:30,930
in relation to that incident so I broke

2192
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:33,600
down all of those documents and you know

2193
01:30:36,980 --> 01:30:34,890
I mean I tried to maintain a fairly

2194
01:30:39,860 --> 01:30:36,990
neutral point of view that I let the

2195
01:30:42,230 --> 01:30:39,870
reader decide on what

2196
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:42,240
not you know this really is the UFO

2197
01:30:48,290 --> 01:30:46,050
topic that we want or not but at least

2198
01:30:50,810 --> 01:30:48,300
we can tie it back to flying saucers and

2199
01:30:52,220 --> 01:30:50,820
UFOs with a documented history and

2200
01:30:54,140 --> 01:30:52,230
that's what I love is just finding

2201
01:30:56,570 --> 01:30:54,150
cooperating evidence to support

2202
01:30:58,880 --> 01:30:56,580
something and hopefully this is what we

2203
01:31:01,580 --> 01:30:58,890
want it to be as the more of these

2204
01:31:03,950 --> 01:31:01,590
stories break with to the Stars and a

2205
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:03,960
tip and the Navy maybe we're gonna see

2206
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:09,090
an inside the black vault vol 2 I won't

2207
01:31:15,260 --> 01:31:10,770
have any hair left by the time that one

2208
01:31:17,090 --> 01:31:15,270
pull it all out where do we find the

2209
01:31:18,590 --> 01:31:17,100
book John and everything you're up to

2210
01:31:20,540 --> 01:31:18,600
these days man I know it's got to feel

2211
01:31:21,740 --> 01:31:20,550
good to have the book done but your luck

2212
01:31:24,860 --> 01:31:21,750
is never done

2213
01:31:26,210 --> 01:31:24,870
yeah no it never is well I'm continuing

2214
01:31:27,740 --> 01:31:26,220
to go after documents if you're

2215
01:31:31,580 --> 01:31:27,750
interested in the book you can order it

2216
01:31:32,870 --> 01:31:31,590
online at inside the black vault dot-com

2217
01:31:36,020 --> 01:31:32,880
or of course any brick-and-mortar

2218
01:31:38,830 --> 01:31:36,030
bookstore that's around you or Amazon or

2219
01:31:40,670 --> 01:31:38,840
wherever you want to to order it from

2220
01:31:43,450 --> 01:31:40,680
hopefully I'll have some exciting news

2221
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:43,460
in the coming next month or so

2222
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:45,810
about something pretty big I'm excited

2223
01:31:49,820 --> 01:31:47,850
about so that that'll be neat to kind of

2224
01:31:51,410 --> 01:31:49,830
stay tuned for but more than all else

2225
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:51,420
just kind of going after the documents

2226
01:31:55,340 --> 01:31:53,370
and putting it all out there so make

2227
01:31:56,660 --> 01:31:55,350
sure you follow on Twitter and Facebook

2228
01:31:59,000 --> 01:31:56,670
and stuff like that because that's where

2229
01:32:01,070 --> 01:31:59,010
I post most of the stuff very very

2230
01:32:02,060 --> 01:32:01,080
quickly and that's where you can hear

2231
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:02,070
from me first

2232
01:32:05,810 --> 01:32:04,050
literally you were posting something

2233
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:05,820
right before we hopped on so I know

2234
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:08,130
you're always working and that's what I

2235
01:32:12,770 --> 01:32:10,650
love about you in and even for the

2236
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:12,780
detractors out there there's no doubting

2237
01:32:18,170 --> 01:32:15,120
that your work is essential to this

2238
01:32:20,570 --> 01:32:18,180
field and I love having you on and I got

2239
01:32:22,550 --> 01:32:20,580
to thank you again for for running us

2240
01:32:24,530 --> 01:32:22,560
through all of this today I'm somewhere

2241
01:32:28,310 --> 01:32:24,540
in the skies so thank you it's my

2242
01:32:30,230 --> 01:32:28,320
pleasure and anytime that's it for this

2243
01:32:31,820 --> 01:32:30,240
week's episode again be sure to pick up

2244
01:32:34,580 --> 01:32:31,830
the book inside the black vault

2245
01:32:36,710 --> 01:32:34,590
available on Amazon at your local book

2246
01:32:39,379 --> 01:32:36,720
stores or directly from the author at

2247
01:32:41,780 --> 01:32:39,389
inside the black vault comm

2248
01:32:44,450 --> 01:32:41,790
please be sure to subscribe rate and

2249
01:32:46,879 --> 01:32:44,460
review semolina skies on Apple podcasts

2250
01:32:47,570 --> 01:32:46,889
your Android apps or wherever you listen

2251
01:32:50,359 --> 01:32:47,580
to the show

2252
01:32:52,370 --> 01:32:50,369
it helps us gain visibility and find new

2253
01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:52,380
listeners if you want to help the show

2254
01:32:57,260 --> 01:32:54,960
continue and receive rewards in return

2255
01:32:59,390 --> 01:32:57,270
be sure to become a patron today to

2256
01:33:03,290 --> 01:32:59,400
learn more and to contribute visit

2257
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:03,300
patreon.com slash summer skies we're on

2258
01:33:08,359 --> 01:33:05,610
twitter at summer skies and instagram at

2259
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:08,369
summer sky spot for all past episodes

2260
01:33:12,649 --> 01:33:10,320
news articles and contact information

2261
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:12,659
visit the official website somewhere in

2262
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:15,090
the skies calm I'll see you here next

2263
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:17,489
week and remember keep your feet on the

2264
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:19,290
ground but never stop searching

2265
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:20,650
somewhere in the skies

2266
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:39,130
[Music]

2267
01:34:00,860 --> 01:33:40,250
[Applause]

2268
01:34:03,330 --> 01:34:00,870
[Music]

2269
01:34:05,070 --> 01:34:03,340
somewhere in the skies is produced by

2270
01:34:07,290 --> 01:34:05,080
Third Kind productions in association

2271
01:34:08,820 --> 01:34:07,300
with the entertainment one podcast